Hays pressure plate

[Hedgehog]

Good stuff, bad stuff, same as about everybody?

 

[HackFabrication]

LuK. 'nuf said.

 

[gr8dain]

I have been happy with the Luk I just installed. No experience with Hays.

 

[hagar]

Only if you feel like wearing your left leg/knee out......

 

[dsrt4]

Only if you feel like wearing your left leg/knee out......

This.

Never should have gotten rid of the diaphragm plate I had even in front of a T-18 and 1 tons I never had a problem.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Luk requires less pedal effort.
Hayes is good-Luk is better.
YMMV
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Why am I interested in a Hays 3 finger clutch?

1 - It's not easy to find an 11" pressure plate.

2 - 3 finger clutches have a longer engagement, in my opinion giving better clutch feel.

3 - When fully engaged a 3 finger clutch has greater disk pressure.

4 - I really don't like installing a diaphragm pressure plate.

5 - Hays has taken steps to reduce clutch chatter

6 - Luk, where has all this support for Luk come from. Last I heard they were rebranding products and you never really know who made your part.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Do you have any links to support your claim about a Hays PP hav'n a higher psi clamping force than Luk or any other brand?
Never had chatter with a Luk or others when the flywheel was resurfaced.
Diaphragm is much lighter pedal effort than '3-finger'.
Luk is the supplier for Centerforce Clutches.
Luk is a German company and has been around a very long time.
LuK Germany
What is your objection to install'n diaphragm pressure plates? They install just like and other single clutch disk assembly.

LG

 

[hagar]

If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.
Use whatever you want to...

Oh, and yes, I use LUK as well.

 

[Hedgehog]

Hey now, I thought we were talking here. Arguing was not my intention. I'm not trying to push this product or bad mouth Luk. It's jus that I did some research, some folks hated Luk, others liked their products very much. Generally speaking they are less expensive. I really don't know what to do or if the search is worth the pain. I do know that with the price of these parts and the inaccessibility of the part in general I hate to make a mistake. I value your opinions and generally use them when ever possible. But, I have posted a lot lately and I'm sure you are sick of hearing from me.

Lumpy - Both Don's hot rod shop and Willys Works agree. In general 3 finger clutches have higher clamping pressure than diaphragm clutches. Also diaphragm clutches loose pressure as RPM's increase. Center Force uses sliding weights to counter that problem. Granted a jeep shouldn't see those high RPM's and most seem to feel that it's not worth the extra expense for something we rarely if ever need. Besides that, lets be simple here, more clutch pedal pressure in a way = greater clamping pressure. And no, I'm not going to look up the spec's, people I trust, people who live with hot rods and jeeps stood in front of me and said the same thing. They were simply laying out the differences between diaphragm and 3 finger clutches.

Both touched on the issue of increased pedal pressure. Some are worse than others. I ran a 3 finger clutch foe many years and didn't find the pedal pressure to be a problem. A buddy of mine had a Nova that had a clutch in it that had OMG high pedal pressure.

Why don't I like diaphragm clutches. I'm a clumsy idiot. On more than a couple occasions I bent the diaphragm fingers during the installation of the Transmission /Transfer Case . Such is working alone and it cost me money. I've never lost a 3 finger clutch. Therefore I referrer them over a diaphragm.

This is my fault, I have been posting too much lately, it's obvious in the responses my posts are getting. I'm sorry for this, it's hot and I'm over thinking this clutch/bell housing/T-18a rebuild/low gear install in a Dana 20 .

 

[Lumpy Grits]

First and utmost-YOU have not been post'n to much! After all-Isn't this forum for collecting information, AKA-knowledge......
HH-You say this. "Lumpy - Both Don's hot rod shop and Willys Works agree. In general 3 finger clutches have higher clamping pressure than diaphragm clutches." I ask this-At what rpm does this come into 'play'?
Some good clutch info here.
The Novak Guide to Clutches, Linkages & Bellhousings for Jeep® Conversions

For a trail rig, where your work'n the clutch pedal a bunch. I'll stick with diaphragm type. We ain't get'n any younger.
Now-On the drag strip, where you 'launch' at 10-12K rpm. Then you'll need a multi-disc, Borg & Beck spring type 3-finger p'plate.
102* and 9%RH.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

I also forgot to add.

It is difficult to get a Luk Clutch without getting an entire kit. Their 11" Kits come with a 1 1/8" dia shaft disk and a GM style t-o bearing, my CJ needs a 1 1/16" dia. shaft disk and a Ford style t-o bearing. It seems like such a waste to throw away perfectly good parts.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I understand what your say'n about waste'n parts/money like that.
Must be my Jewish blood.
Do you think a NAPA would be able to help, or the two Jeep outfits you deal with?
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Don's Hot Rod was the only one that came up with much. The Transmission place I purchased my rebuild kit from couldn't even help. I ended up finding the part number that looked correct, Don's found a place to get it (Hays 50-110), but I haven't ordered it yet.

 

[hagar]

Hedge, you seemed to have had your mind made up before you asked for opinions, hence my response.

LG, my LUK clutch had "Made in South Africa" stickers all over it.

 

[Hedgehog]

Well, what can I say, from the title of the thread, I thought it was fairly clear I was leaning toward the Hays clutch. Then it seemed appropriate to lay out my reasoning. When my reasoning is faulty have no fear to point it out, I will always listen to your thoughts. As I research the issue I find that Hays doesn't make an 11" diaphragm clutch. Their diaphragm is 10.4". At this point a diaphragm clutch is definitely still in the running.

Now I see that the Hays clutch is listed as a "Street/Track" clutch. From my understanding a track part is designed to perform above and beyond a street item during it's short life, then fail on the cool down lap. Would that be true of a clutch?

The Luk clutch that pops up on a search is made in Mexico.

On another board a mechanic sys he has installed a lot of Luk clutches in all sizes of vehicles. In his experience the Luk clutches failed quicker than others. Others love their Luk clutch. Like all else on the internet, who knows what my experience would be.

All'n'all I'm thinking far to much about this.

 

[Peanut Butter]

This is my fault, I have been posting too much lately, it's obvious in the responses my posts are getting. I'm sorry for this, it's hot and I'm over thinking this clutch/bell housing/T-18a rebuild/low gear install in a Dana 20 .

HH, this is not true! I look forward to reading your posts. I almost always learn something, even if it doesn't apply to my Jeep.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

FWIW: I've installed about 25 Luk clutches of the last 15yrs or so. Had one pressure plate(diaphragm type)go bad after about two years of use. NAPA replaced it for free.
When I bought my CJ in '85. Within 2 yrs had 2 pressure plates out. Don't remember who was AMC's, OEM for them. They were diaphragm type p'plate.
I am surprised to see Luk buy'n from all over the planet.....
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Lumpy - As I think I wrote, at least I meant to write it, as in all internet things the answers to Luk quality were all over the place. Some loved'em some hated'em for some a clutch is a clutch is a clutch. What really slows my enthusiasm is that almost all clutches are now bought as a kit. Getting individual parts is becoming impossible. You can get some disks and most t-o bearings and pilot bushings/bearings, but when a pressure plate is needed you are stuck with a kit. Granted, most engine - Transmission combinations are covered in a kit. Throw in something only slightly odd like an 11" clutch and a 1 1/16" diameter center disk and you are on your own. You'd think Advanced adaptors and NOVAK would fill this void, no they don't, they come close. You have to buy a kit and a separate disk.

 

[Torxhead]

Hedge, years ago when I put in my T-18 in it required a 10 spline(I think) disc and kit was not available with that to fit my '86 flywheel. 4WPW ordered the pressure plate and the disc separate to make it work. This was on a Centerforce diaphram unit that has worked just fine with a pretty light pedal.