HEI upgrade for 225 odd-fire V6 on '69 CJ-5 options

HEI upgrade for 225 odd-fire V6 on '69 CJ-5 options
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infernalcolonel

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I've been reading a lot about the GM HEI upgrades, and I've found 2 options. First of all, good junkyards are basically nonexistent here in Southern MD, and I want to make sure I'm getting good hardware, so I'm looking at buying a refurb or a new model.

I found the HEI's on summitracing.com and a few other sites, but they're close to $300, which is currently a bit out of my budget. I looked for a distributor for a '76 Buick Regal (suggested on another post or two--'75-77 Oldsmobiles, Pontiacs, or Buicks, and this is the only model I found using the databases at Autozone, Advance, and Napa that has a 231 odd fire 3.8L engine, which I'm pretty sure is the Buick).

Anyway, the parts that came up were #48-1693 and #30-1693, which I believe may be the same thing. I called NAPA's parts department hotline, and they said that it fits an odd fire engine (I think it was the 48; Advance and Autozone had the other one, which was the 30, or maybe they're swapped around. Can't remember).

Anyway, the part is $129 before a 10% discount. I also searched using the #30 part number online and found several links on eBay, amazon, and autopartswarehouse:

CARDONE 30-1693 Distributor | eBay
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQPontiacQQVenturaQQA1_CardoneQQDistributorQQ1977Q QA1301693.html
1975-1977 Buick Century Ignition Distributor - Engine Electrical - A1 Cardone 75-77 Century Ignition Distributor - 2546-05098373 - PartsGeek term=1975-1977+Buick+Century+Ignition+Distributor+A1+Cardone +30-1693+75-77+Buick+Ignition+Distributor+1976&utm_content=DN& utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&fp=pp&gbm=a
Amazon
I'm assuming this will fit my 225 odd fire (in my '69 CJ5 ). If I'm wrong, correct me.

HOWEVER, my main question is whether or not this is an "HEI." I have scoured for tech info and can't seem to find any mention of voltage output. I've been having some issues getting a cold start (good battery and made sure to trickle charge it overnight since I'm swapping out my alternator), and from the sound of my 5 minute attempt to start it, the battery was fine; it just didn't want to "turn over" and start. I'm hoping this will help since I'll be driving it during a cold winter in Maine every day.

Any ideas? Is it a good idea buying from one of these sites when I can't get a lot of good info (and have to trust it's a good rebuild), or am I better off just going new? The CRT is only 30k volts as opposed ot the stock 20k, and I'm thinking that more is better for better starts, especially considering some of the new powerful models are like 50k-65k. I just prefer to spend less if possible.

Side note: am I just as well-off upgrading to a Pertronix ignitor? Seems like a cheaper option, and some people seem to be very happy with it.

Thanks in advance (is this site related to jeepforum.com?).
 
first let me repeat "Odd Fire"
regular V6 distributors do not fit
they are firing on a entire different crank pattern, you have a crank that is from 305 with one section missing. That is why it is an odd fire.
so be very careful
second, there is a few companies making Hei distributors just for the 225, and those are the ones you want to use. I know that quite a few of the ones not built for the 225 require some grinding on the block to get in.
Good luck, maybe a few extra days saving for the one that is made for the engine is prudent
 
Yeah, jeepsterpartsdude's even says that it takes grinding. I'm not that experienced with that sort of thing, so I'd prefer not to if possible, but it's hard to tell which distributors require that. And I have no idea how to tell. $300 is a LOT, though...everything I've read suggests the 231 odd fire distros work fine on the 225s; that's why I'm wondering if the part from Napa, etc. will be fine.
 
if it is from the 231 odd fire it will work
key word is odd fire
but I do not think the 231 ODD FIRE had Hei

again remember the crank shaft, the entire timing is dependent on that, a odd fire engine does not fire at 120 degrees constant like a regular v6 it fires like in a lope, I cannot remember the 2 degrees sorry

I think Hei came in after 76 when the odd fire got a new crank and flywheel becoming an even fire engine
 
from Novak:

Back to Buick
GM offered to purchase back the V6 rights and tooling from AMC in 1974. The 225 V6 Buick was then reintroduced by GM in 1975 with a .050 larger bore that increased its displacement to 231 CID; this done to match the 350 V8's bore size, so the V6's could again be produced along-side the Buick 350 V8, sharing many common parts, including pistons.
This newer version was still an odd-fire engine but had the Delco HEI electronic distributor. In mid-1977 the 231 was converted to "even-fire" (120 degree spaced firing impulses) by changing the crankshaft, camshaft, distributor and (presumably for increased volumetric efficiency) the cylinder heads and intake manifold.

So it sounds like they did use HEIs then, I just want to make sure I get a nice and powerful one for the job, but I don't want to have to do any fabricating. Would I possibly be better off with a 231 stock replacement since maybe the distributor cap will be smaller than those on the new DUI units?

Thanks; I really need help on this, as I've spent HOURS on the internet and keep hitting roadblocks.
 
I've used CRT HEI 's on both my AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l and AMC 304 and no issues what so ever. The cap is gonna be the same either way,except DUI, the only real difference is the output of the coil. In my opinion the CRT is the best for the buck, DUI makes one as well but if you're engine is a 71, the DUI will not fit due to the LARGE cap(mainly the coil cover). As far as the lower dollar HEI's you have to watch out for hardened gears as they will destroy your cam gear, I know for sure on the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l and AMC 304 , you'll have to research what type gear you have on the cam and match the Dizzy gear to avoid problems. Or just swap your gear onto the new dizzy.
 
I put a CRT in my AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l and I have been very happy with it. The advice on this upgrade is;
1) to check the gear to make sure that it isn't hardened otherwise it could wear the cam gear. I took the gear off of my old distributor, had it bushed (the new distributor shaft was smaller in diameter) and then used it on the new CRT distributor.
2) to check the total timing advance. If I remember correctly it should be between 28 and 32 degrees total advance. It is an easy adjustment on the CRT that I have, the adjustment is made with a small allen wrench into the advance diaphragm to limit the total advance.

I'd do this again.:D
 
What distributor do you currently have? If it's a Delco; I would also suggest considering a Pertronics conversion. It replaces the points, comes with everything needed and works great in my opinion. About a 45 minute install with no grinding of intake or intake bolt replacement required. I've been running one since 2005, and have no complaints. I'm down in Chesapeake, Va, and have a VERY usable Delco distro I could part with if you decided to go that way and need to replace a Prestolite unit.
 
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I have the Prestolite distributor. I've heard you can't do the Pertronix upgrade with that one; is that true? Another guy said that if I upgrade to a CDI (is this what the Pertronix upgrade is?) with the stock distributor, that it won't really do me any good.

This wasn't such a difficult decision before I started reading about CDI's, and I'm still not sure exactly what we're referring to. I even have the go-ahead from the wife to spend a few hundred bucks, and I don't know what direction to take!
 
do a ebay search, there is a guy on ebay that sells them for $235, but you have to grind,, no much but you do have to grind
he said he has 10 for sale, he refurbishes old dist and puts in the parts got HEI
 
Wouldn't I be better off just getting a CRT for that price? At least any returns would be easier:

Buick HEI

I can get a reman. from NAPA for $115, and apparently all I need is a new coil to up the voltage to 40-50k; would that be a simple drop-in, or would I need to upgrade the cap, rotor, etc.? I seem to be getting conflicting info, and easier is better.
 
Do it the way you want
at first you wanted HEI
now you want CRT

I cannot make up your mind, I just found a cheaper HEI than 300 smakers you were complaining about.

How you go is your choice. and your pocket books.:chug:
 
Not trying to complain at all! I'm overwhelmed with info, I'm a mechanical n00b, and I honestly don't know what a CDI is (and looking through all the forums is just confusing me more). The CRT is an HEI manufacturer, I thought, but you may have meant CDI.

Maybe I'm annoying people with all the questions, but I thought that's what we're here for. This is the first time I've ever had to do any major modifications to a vehicle, so I'm trying to make sure I do it right.

To simplify, my main question with the HEI's is if the rebuilds from auto parts stores (as in the part that matches a '75 Regal) are going to be a simple drop-in, or if I'm going to buy other components as well...this will make it easy to pick the DUI if it's the only option not necessitating the purchase of other parts (other than better wires).

And after I'm reading so much about CDI's being a better upgrade, I want to make sure I'm spending money on the best thing to make my CJ start and run better when it's cold, which is its main issue.

Not being fickle, it's just that using the searches can lead to an information onslaught, and I just need a little clarification.

Thanks.
 
I ran the Prestolite from '80 until '05... It came stock in my '71 when my dad bought it new. Good distributor that worked even in the cold climates of Washington State and Virginia. I just got tired of messing with points and decided to try something different... hence the Pertronix upgrade. At the time, it only cost $100 to perform, including a used but in excellent condition Delco distributor. Improvements I've seen are quicker starts in hot/ cold weather, better idle and ZERO maintenance needs. Maybe I'll go another route one day; but see no reason to now. To be fair, I've seen and heard of the same results from folks who have gone the HEI route as well. Your call but both are about the same amount of work to install.
 
no one is getting upset, I just sourced a cheaper HEI and now you are asking about something else
I prefer HEI it is compact
 
chris insull said:
I ran the Prestolite from '80 until '05... It came stock in my '71 when my dad bought it new. Good distributor that worked even in the cold climates of Washington State and Virginia. I just got tired of messing with points and decided to try something different... hence the Pertronix upgrade. At the time, it only cost $100 to perform, including a used but in excellent condition Delco distributor. Improvements I've seen are quicker starts in hot/ cold weather, better idle and ZERO maintenance needs. Maybe I'll go another route one day; but see no reason to now. To be fair, I've seen and heard of the same results from folks who have gone the HEI route as well. Your call but both are about the same amount of work to install.
Click to expand...
Chriss, we are both in the same shoes
My 70 CJ6 has the dreaded 70/71 conversion year factor
please tell me you found a way to replace the belcrank clutch linkage because I need one. and what carb are you running on that Dauntless Buick 225 V6
 
A new distributor may not fix your hard start. You could have a different problem. My 67 V6 with Delco distributor and points starts in one revolution. I'd find the problem first.
 
BajaEdition said:
Chriss, we are both in the same shoes
My 70 CJ6 has the dreaded 70/71 conversion year factor
please tell me you found a way to replace the belcrank clutch linkage because I need one. and what carb are you running on that Dauntless Buick 225 V6
Click to expand...
Mines the stock POS; needs frequent adjustment; cable system. Build quality of the cables has gone down over the years so I'm considering going hydraulic sometime in the future. AA has a kit that can be installed, a cable and chain assy that relieves much of the leg effort required to disengage the clutch. Attaches to the drivers inner frame area. I've seen it used with much success. I'm running the stock Rochester 2G; rebuild it about every 10 years or so... quite satisfied!
 
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