Help with troubleshooting my grinding problem..

[Rexx66]

I've been pretty lucky with not having any major issues with my CJ5 since I picked it up early last summer. Well the time has come I think for some major cash flow (in my mind at least)

I noticed about a week or so ago when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear (only a 3 speed BTW) that it would OCCASIONALLY grind briefly. So my friend and I jokingly said I should start double clutching', not granny shifting' (F&F reference). And I noticed that when "double clutching'" from 2 to 3, it wouldn't grind.. but I knew the issue was still there.

Then on this past friday the gears were being a real PITA and would make weird noises while in 1st or 2nd, still grinding when going from 2 to 3. And sometimes now it is a little tricky to get into 1st when taking off.

I have no clue where to start or where to look for issues. I've never done any Transmission work, but have a feeling I'm going to be learning soon. I have a competent friend who is UTI trained, ect. ect... but this being an old vehicle we are both a little lost on where to begin.

Is there somewhere I can check fluid if that would MAYBE be an issue? I've been told by my father in law that I can adjust the clutch and that may be it too..?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.. I don't have the time to work on it myself for too long so it will probably get taken to a local classic car shop here in town and let them deal with it, unless it's something I feel I can do with my friend in the garage..

Thanks for any help I can get!

 

[mtnwhlr]

You should have a plug on the side of the Transmission to check the fluid just pull the plug and check to see if the fluid is up to the hole. And you might try adjusting the clutch to give it a little more throw. You should have about an 1" of free play at the top.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Ck tranny and t'case oil level, ASAP!
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

You need a simple clutch adjustment ...... a 5 minute job. Here's a clue from my Jeep Guy here in Tucson. When adjusting the clutch naturally the throw out bearing should be full disengaged when the clutch is running normally. THere are lots of instruction on pedal free play, but tha measurement is spooky at best. what Rob does is crawl under the jeer when it's running. feel the throw out fork end, adjust the linkage until you can feel the bearing pulse (you'll know it when you feel it), this means the bearing is incontact with the clutch fingers. Back off the adjustment until the pilot bearing is consistently out of contact with the clutch fingers and lock it down. I work the clutch a few times, if its still clear take a trip around the block and check it again. IT never hurts to take a longer trip to get everything good and hot, then check again. This method is quick and works well, after you've done it a few times with a little confidence your check list will become much shorter.

It never hurts to check your fluid levels too. If you haven't done it change your fluids. I have been guilty of this. It is amazing how long drivers go without checking let alone changing Transmission oil/grease/fluids. THese fluids generally don't wear out, but is is amazinge to see how much water can find it's way inside your cases. You don't have to run in deep water either. It can be as simple as rain on your shift lever with a warn or missing boot. Rain water will run down the lever and settle in the shift ball area eventually ending up in the case.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

You should follow the FSM for clutch pedal freeplay(1-1 1/4"). It was write'n in for a reason.
As the friction material of the clutch disc wears down. The freeplay will decrease as the pressure plate's 'fingers' in fact rise up.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

I'll take advice from a guy that has been working on Jeep clutches for 40 years, but that's just me. Clutch adjustment always brings on post after post of adjustment advice, most of it is correct in it's own way. I like Robs method becaust it takes into account linkage wear and other things that a theoretical number created in a lab that has nothing to do with your actual Jeep can't.

I've always wondered, how do you accurately measure free play? The pilot bearing will touch the clutch fingers long before you can feel it int he pedal.

 

[mtnwhlr]

linkage wear.

This is something else you should check for it's a very common problem with these CJs.

 

[Hedgehog]

I've thought many times that linkage wear causes a need for clutch adjustment far quicker than actual clutch wear. I've seen an amazing amount of linkage wear where it looks like someone took a saw to the Jeeps joints.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I'll take advice from a guy that has been working on Jeep clutches for 40 years, but that's just me. Clutch adjustment always brings on post after post of adjustment advice, most of it is correct in it's own way. I like Robs method becaust it takes into account linkage wear and other things that a theoretical number created in a lab that has nothing to do with your actual Jeep can't.

I've always wondered, how do you accurately measure free play? The pilot bearing will touch the clutch fingers long before you can feel it int he pedal.

Well I have been do'n the same since I was 15yo. I'm 63+ now.
The way your buddy does it, does NOT take into account flex in the frame and body when off-road. That flex can in fact preload the linkage if there is not the correct f'play in the pedal.
Me-I follow the FSM
Pedal f'play is easy to measure with a 12" ruler--
LG

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I've thought many times that linkage wear causes a need for clutch adjustment far quicker than actual clutch wear. I've seen an amazing amount of linkage wear where it looks like someone took a saw to the Jeeps joints.

Even more so with the poorly designed CJ linkage.
I switch to Heim joints over 25 yrs ago on mine for that very reason.
LG

 

[Geep]

Ck tranny and t'case oil level, ASAP!
LG

Just checked the fluid level in my tranny and it IS low ! 73 CJ5 3 speed. Howcan I tell what model the tranny is ? T-15 or ? Is 80W-90 gear oil the right oil for a manual tranny ?

 

[Hedgehog]

With the AMC 304 you've likely got a T-15 . The T-18 was an option, but you have a 3 speed. With the smaller engines the standard is a T-14 .

LG - we will have to agree to disagree on this point, I see what your are saying, only a fook wouldn't, but I like myu method better. By-the-way almost 30 years ago, withouth any advice I switched over to Heim Joints on my '80 CJ5 and have done it about 33% on my '75. 2 new ball joints and a heim joint going to the clutch. With a ball Joint set-up your method works well. No slop and comparatively great feel. With other set-ups I have little trust in the operator KNOWING when his clutch has engaged the throw out bearing. Besides, when I've used my method the pedal free play measurement is very close to spec's. I also like to use an extra spring to hold the fork in constant contact with the linkage. Maybe it's not necessary, but the precausion makes me feel better.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

That 3 speed Ill bet is a T-15 .
T-18 is a 4 speed.
80W-90 is fine. I would drain and refill the axles along with the tranny and t'case.
You also need to buy a REAL, FSM. Haynes-Chilton are piss pour and very lacking.
Collins Brothers Jeeps and Jeep Parts
Did you ck the t'case to see if it's over filled??
LG

 

[Geep]

That 3 speed Ill bet is a T-15 .
T-18 is a 4 speed.
80W-90 is fine. I would drain and refill the axles along with the tranny and t'case.
You also need to buy a REAL, FSM. Haynes-Chilton are piss pour and very lacking.
Collins Brothers Jeeps and Jeep Parts
Did you ck the t'case to see if it's over filled??
LG

Thanks LG and HH....Yah, I have the Haynes book and like you said, Its worthless ! Will do all the fluids tomorrow

 

[Rexx66]

I have had a small leak from my rear differential cover for a few months now, but hasn't been leaking much, just a drop or two every once in a while. Would that have something to do with it and be taken into consideration.. I bought the stuff to fix it just haven't had the time and its just now warming up here so I can get out to the garage and not freeze to death.

I messed around with my 4h-2h-N-4L shifter and that seemed to get rid of a few of the weird noises I was hearing in 1st/2nd. BUT the grinding from 2 to 3 is still there and still having to double clutch to prevent grinding.

Hoping to get some time this weekend to check fluids and look for other issues

 

[Lumpy Grits]

When was the last time you ck'd the oil level in that diff?
Sounds to me like your out of oil--
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Your differential has nothing to do with your Transmission . Yes that is a wide open statement. I think folks have lost sight of how the older vehicles work.

While low fluids in your differential would not be a good thing the differential is a separate gear unit that's sole purpose in life is to transfer driveshaft energy to the wheels. Differentials don't grind, they can whine and snap and make horrible noises, but they don't grind.

Transfer cases and transmissions grind. Transfer cases are simple devices that carry a heck of a load from the Transmission to the driveshaft. they are not meant to be shifted on the fly so they don't have syncro's to help shifting without grinding. Transmissions deliver power from the engine/clutch to the Transfer Case . If gears grind they are moving. If the clutch peddle is pushed the gears shouldn’t be moving or driven. If they are the Transmission won’t go into gear without complaining or grinding at least a little.

Sincro’s are actually brakes for the gears. They slow one gear allowing it to mesh with the next one. If your syncro’ aren’t working you will get some grinding in the gears that are supposed to mesh smoothly. Bu, if your clutch is not releasing your gears will grind too.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

HH-IF-there is an issue with the diff or DS, it can very well affect shifting.
Something as simple as different tire psi in each rear tire, will cause an issue with locking diffs while shifting.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

If its a duck I prefer to look for a duck......... Tire presssure? Yeah I've heard that repainting your Jeep can cause it to grind gears, I once had a lose nut holding one of my fender lights on, I'm sure that was causing me to prematurely loose universal joints ..... No now I've got to stop it, no matter what I think Lumpy probably has a point and I'll leave it at that. Good luck with your grinding problem, I hope it' an easy repair.....

 

[Lumpy Grits]

HH- :rock:

LG