Introduction and Need Suspension Advice

[ColoradoCJ]

Hello everyone! I am a member at another big Jeep sight, but for whatever reason, couldn't seem to get people to help me over there. Also, I noticed I got more information from here when doing Google searches.. so I figured its time to try to make some friends over here. I'm in Colorado Spring, CO and am still reasonably new to Jeeps and offroading. I'm no mechanic, but I do OK with a wrench given a little time and instruction.

I bought my CJ7 a few months ago and have taken it out a couple of times, mostly rock crawling and tough trails. Thanks to the squeaks, blown tie rod end and leaning shackle I know it needs some suspension work.

A few questions:
1. Is my shackle angle OK? I'm wondering if it should be a little steeper especially on the rear.
2. The rear shackle is 5.5" bolt to bolt. The front it 3". Does this mean the front has a 4" spring lift and the rear has 2.5" spring lift and 1.5" (1.25") shackle lift? I was told it had a 4" suspension lift when I bought it, and as far as I can tell that seems right on. The 33" tires will ever so slightly so slightly scrub at full flex.
3. If the answer to #2 is "Yes", would I benefit from getting 3" shackles and a 4" suspension lift rear springs? As an example, the front seems to actually absorb bumps (like going out of my drive way), but the rear suspension is extremely stiff and seems like it should/could be much better.
4. Are my drag link and tie rod close enough to parrallel?

The pics:

Thanks for any input!

 

[mtnwhlr]

:ww: you have some members do there in the Springs that I bet can get with you and help. From your pics it all looks good to me. Doing tough trails will show worn parts it's just part of the beast. And you are now with the best CJ site on the web with way smarter people than me.

 

[ColoradoCJ]

Thanks for the welcome! I knew this wouldn't be the cheapest hobby I've ever had I just promised myself I would at least try to do the repairs myself because I really want to learn.

I'm really curious about the differences in the shackle length and if that's why the front and rear feel so different. Everything I've read would indicate that 5" is about as big of a shackle as you want, and having no lift from shackles is best.

I'm thinking about getting something like these Superlift or ProComp 4" Leaf Springs and some stock size shackles for the rear. Specific recommendations would be nice!

 

[mtnwhlr]

Shackle lifts are bad they make your Jeep handle poorly. I think you are on the right track with going with a 4" spring lift and a stock size shackle. Others can say what company lift they think rides the best I don't know.

 

[tarry99]

Hello everyone! I am a member at another big Jeep sight, but for whatever reason, couldn't seem to get people to help me over there. Also, I noticed I got more information from here when doing Google searches.. so I figured its time to try to make some friends over here. I'm in Colorado Spring, CO and am still reasonably new to Jeeps and offroading. I'm no mechanic, but I do OK with a wrench given a little time and instruction.

I bought my CJ7 a few months ago and have taken it out a couple of times, mostly rock crawling and tough trails. Thanks to the squeaks, blown tie rod end and leaning shackle I know it needs some suspension work.

A few questions:
1. Is my shackle angle OK? I'm wondering if it should be a little steeper especially on the rear.
2. The rear shackle is 5.5" bolt to bolt. The front it 3". Does this mean the front has a 4" spring lift and the rear has 2.5" spring lift and 1.5" (1.25") shackle lift? I was told it had a 4" suspension lift when I bought it, and as far as I can tell that seems right on. The 33" tires will ever so slightly so slightly scrub at full flex.
3. If the answer to #2 is "Yes", would I benefit from getting 3" shackles and a 4" suspension lift rear springs? As an example, the front seems to actually absorb bumps (like going out of my drive way), but the rear suspension is extremely stiff and seems like it should/could be much better.
4. Are my drag link and tie rod close enough to parrallel?

The pics:

Thanks for any input!

The angle on the shackles look pretty close with weight on the Jeep. THe fronts do seem a little closer to where I like to see them start. Front spring packs look like maybe 5 springs......whats the rear like? Keep in mind even with the fuel tank back there it just may be to stiff or oversprung for the weight your carring........Hard to get the best of both Worlds on a short spring like that.
Sometimes taking a few pounds of air pressure out will help, but not to the point the steering and handling get mushy on the pavement.
Tie rod and Drag Link angle look OK............
I'm with MTN.....get those tall shackles off there and on new springs keep in mind that as you lift the Jeep the springs have to have a greater arch and are stiffer to hold the weight up which normally equates to a ruffer ride.
Again hard to get both when your looking for Lift & Comfort!

 

[Old Dog]

IMO anytime the shackle is straight up and down the ride will be stiff and there is a chance it will invert when off road. I like to see them angled out 20-30 degrees. This helps with the ride, helps keep them from inverting, and also helps with down travel.
I've had good luck with my super lift springs. but like all 4" lift springs they ride kinda stiff.

 

[73CJ]

:ww:

Why did the PO put longer shackles on? Humm

The springs have similar style clips, chances are they are the same Mfg.

Can you take a straight edge between the spring eyes and measure the drop to the axle tube or spring center? That should tell you if they are the same 4"lift or not.

The front bumper is a couple inches higher than the rear on a stock setup. Maybe the PO was trying to level it? Can you put some side view pics on? The body should sit level.

 

[ColoradoCJ]

That's the best picture I've got right now.

The body does sit very close to level. I'm not sure why the difference in springs from the PO, I was hoping that was something you guys could tell me, lol. This Jeep has had a lot of work done professionally, including a reputable off-roading shop. Not sure if they were the ones that did the lift or not. As far as I can tell, all repairs have been done right, not just thrown together in someone's back yard.

I'll take that measurement later. I'm pretty sure the springs packs all have the same number of leaves, but I'll have to check that later and get back with you.

Old Dog, are the Superlift springs I have the link to like what you've used in the past? It seems straight forward enough, but is it that easy? Just get a 4" spring and a stock sized shackle? I've never done any work on suspension, so its all new to me.

 

[Old Dog]

ColoradoCJ. as far as I know superlift only makes one spring rate so I would say they are the same. I bought mine as a "lift kit" 6 or 7 years ago although I just got 2 new front springs from them this summer to replace a front spring I bent while 4 wheel'n. They matched the height of the old rear ones good.
As a side note they would not warranty the bent one but they did sell me 2 new ones for $50 apiece plus shipping. I didn't push them to hard though as it was kinda my fault it bent.

 

[PaRenegade]

A few questions:
1. Is my shackle angle OK? I'm wondering if it should be a little steeper especially on the rear.
2. The rear shackle is 5.5" bolt to bolt. The front it 3". Does this mean the front has a 4" spring lift and the rear has 2.5" spring lift and 1.5" (1.25") shackle lift? I was told it had a 4" suspension lift when I bought it, and as far as I can tell that seems right on. The 33" tires will ever so slightly so slightly scrub at full flex.
3. If the answer to #2 is "Yes", would I benefit from getting 3" shackles and a 4" suspension lift rear springs? As an example, the front seems to actually absorb bumps (like going out of my drive way), but the rear suspension is extremely stiff and seems like it should/could be much better.
4. Are my drag link and tie rod close enough to parrallel?

-1. They should tilt slightly away from the vehicle. The angle is debatable and can vary some but right around 15-20 degrees should deter spring inversion when fully extended. Don't over tighten the bolt, and grease them if their poly bushings. These are the hinge points of the suspension.

-2. That sounds like what they did, but if your re-doing your suspension I'd get the same springs and the same shackles. You have to have shackles for the springs to work right and the stock Jeeps had a 3" bolt to bolt set on both front and rear. Shackles usually get a bad rap do to the misuse of them and the cheaper quality ones out there or homemade. Your fronts appear to be ConFerr brand and were some of the sturdiest ever made. Unfortunately they aren't in business anymore. The rears look cheaper and are also about the maximum length you should go, if they were a beefier shackle.
Shackles help keep the springs in line with the frame and the longer the shackle, the more twisting torque it puts on the shackle hanger which is the weak link in the stock suspension. If your keeping those, stay with a 3" shackle and keep off the sidehills. If your getting longer and beefier shackles, go with billet type mounts or one's with reinforced side webs to keep the curl from twisting.

-3. The springs may be old, and worn, same with the bushings they could also be dry and worn. These both make for a stiffer ride. If your going with a 4" spring suspension, I'd cut the shackles (not physically cut) back to 4" b2b. That would still theoretically give you 1/2" more lift than you suspect you have now. Plenty for 33" tires at full compression.

-4. Yes, they look good to me anyways. And they are heavier duty than stock ones too.

 

[ColoradoCJ]

So..

Front shackles are Con-Ferr. The rear shackles I couldn't find a name on them. Good eye!

73CJ, I'm not 100% sure of terminology so I might have measured the wrong places. But here's a quick Paint picture to show you what I did. (front of the Jeep is to the left). A=3.0" and the shackle was about 2" above the center line of the spring eye. B= 3.75" and the shackle was about .5" above the center line of the spring eye.

And finally, the front has 5 leafs, while the back only has 4. Any issue with that?

I think that was all the questions. Thanks!

 

[73CJ]

What I meant to say was run a line eye to eye on the same spring. You definately have 1" shackle lift.

Measure the center section of the frame. It should be level and equal.

 

[Torxhead]

Those pics you sent show quite a bit, ColoradoCJ. I think you should keep those springs, since they do have the military wrap on the second spring. They do help with spring wrap and can get you home if the main spring breaks. Those Con-Ferr shackles are great also, if only you could get a set for the rear, some say they are a bit long though and do require the aftermarket neopreme bushings. With high lift springs, I have seen a lot of oem front spring shackle hangars break where the rivet clearance hole is, so watch for that. Heavy duty aftermarket ones are available.

 

[PaRenegade]

I just ran across this article and it may be of some help.
Jeep Parts, Jeep Accessories & Jeep Soft Tops From The Jeep Parts Experts - Quadratec