Lap Belts and Kids

[jswatson0917]

My wife and I have a little disagreement that I need some help with. We have recently bought a 1979 CJ7 . The disagreement we are having is whether our children who are in car seats will be safe in the Jeep without their car seat. I say they will be safe because my wife and I used lap belts when we were their ages and our parents used lap belts when they were younger too. Connecticut law says any children 60 pounds and under must use car seats unless your vechicle is older and did not come equipped with shoulder harnesses. Am I totally off my rocker thinking our children will be safe in the Jeep without their car seats with shoulder harnesses? (On street driving)? Or is my wife right that they are not safe with just lap belts (Why would have made the changes to shoulder harnesses if lap belts were safe is her argument) Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[susie]

Shoulder harnesses arent made for kids. They are made for people that are something like 5'4" to whatever. I know that I am 5'1" and if I am ever in an accident with that shoulder strap on, I will hang. Give your wife that one.

BUT how old are your kids? How much do they weigh? Girls or boys? I say a booster seat until they are legal age/weight, but I also agree with you. I remember being in the back of my granddaddy's jeep, where there were no seats. And when he said to hang on, you prayed you could find something because the only thing there was, was...well, the back of his and granny's seat. When he hit a bump, you hit your head off of something. I guess thats what happened to me

If your kids are boys, tell her that they need to get some bumps to make them tougher... ok, that really wont work, and she will probably kick your butt I would if my husband had said that to me... lmao!

Goodnight, sweet dreams. I need sleep.

 

[CJ]

Safe is a relative term.

Years ago we were safe as we could be because a lap belt was all we had. There is no question that a lap belt with a shoulder harness is safer then a one with out. And one with multiple should harnesses as well as a sub belt is even safer! Now we are safer because of air bags and crumple zones...

 

[coldwater]

Well, here's my thoughts. In the first place..how safe are you going to be in a CJ jeep if you are going to be in an accident? Lets face it, you're not in a Volvo here, you're in a little tin box. Keeping that in mind, Years ago when I was a lad, no one wore a seatbelt at all, and we rode in the back of pick up trucks too. I have also been tossed out of an MB onto my <-BAD WORD-> in a cow field more than once because there was no seat belt, and my Uncle liked to get a little nuts. (looking back, I think the SOB did it on purpose! )I think It's a common sense call. Keep to side roads and not interstate highways, be more mindful of traffic than you would driving your 3/4 ton truck, and be careful. You and I made it this far, they will too, and besides, love them as we do, you can't protect them from everything that maybe possibly might could happen to them. I think It's a great memory they'll look back on later in life, just like we do. Kids need those little adventure in their lives to take with them. Thinking about it...It may have been my Uncle that tought me to mistrust anyone in a Jeep that pulled into a mud hole, turned the wheel to the left, and said "hey, I think were stuck, look out there and see if the front wheel is spinning" Yeah,,he definately tossed me out of that Jeep on purpose.

 

[elwood blues]

Unfortunately, your wife knows me, so my arguement is officially null and void. But, I'm going to give it to you anyways.

Last year I got pulled over by the fuzz because he thought none of us were wearing our seatbelt. We had a conversation about Zach being in a booster seat. Because the law in CT is 6 years old or 60 lbs, whichever come last. But, because the back seat in a CJ is such a low back seat, you're actually putting the kid more at risk having them in a booster seat. Because booster seats aren't designed to be held in with a lap belt, and putting him a booster seat puts his head and neck above the back of the seat.

I grew up on a farm on a dirt road. We road around in the beds of pickup trucks, beat up old unregistered Jeeps, 3 Wheelers (not ATVs because they have 4 wheels), home made go carts. I was driving a farm tractor by age eight. Grandpa's rule was if you could push in the pedals, and keep your but on the seat you were big enough. But those were different times. No cell phones, no text messaging, the idiot teenagers weren't quite as big of idiots. Unfortunately, if she's made up her mind, you're probably poopie out of luck.

 

[kicknjeep]

Same here, grew up riding around on gravel road not only in bed of pick ups but on the tail gait. never knew what a car seat was growing up. "BUT" there are laws protecting our children from becoming tough ( Susie ). And also said and I agree how safe are you going to be in a 25-30 year old tin box in the event of an accident? I say seat belt them in, put a helmet on their head and drive!!!!






























just kidding about the helmet

 

[susie]

I know that the laws are becoming tough. BUT I thought we were discussing how to convince the wife that the kids would be safe.

 

[northfaceboy22]

Gotta input I think these CJ were very safe for the technology that was put into building them at the time. But with all the safety and new technology that we have in our current vehicles wouldnt you want to provide your kids with as much safety as possible.

I strictly have my Jeep as a toy. And on the earlier CJ's the wheel base is shorter so they are more prone to turning over and I just wouldnt want to put my kids in that type of ride, atleast until they get older.

On the other hand if you feel alright with them in your jeep then I wouldnt worry about it, but I do see how your wife could be cautious!

Just my input not trying to lecture!

 

[kicknjeep]

Susie I said he can put a helmet on the kids
Or find and install a YJ roll bar and rear seat harnesses/belts and then best of both worlds.

 

[BrockGrimes]

My boy is 3, he rides up front with dad in his car seat which is held in with a lap belt. (no back seat)

My plan is to get a frame mounted family cage installed, then center mount a bucket seat pushed more forward. The cage will protect the family and the center mounted rear seat will put the boy in the middle of the vehicle and away from the back and sides.

Why do this? There is no way in hell the boy would ever ride in a regular CJ rear seat. It's mounted on the tailgate and his head would be outside the jeep.

 

[mylittlecj5]

I strictly have my Jeep as a toy. And on the earlier CJ's the wheel base is shorter so they are more prone to turning over and I just wouldnt want to put my kids in that type of ride, atleast until they get older.

You know I understand the physics of this argument, but in practical real world situations, it isn't true. I have had my CJs run thru a few very precarious moments, when other idio..UH..drivers have decided to pull in front of me, or something similar. In 25 years of driving SWB vehicles, I have NEVER had on tip over on me! This includes a fair amount of hard wheeling. You can't just buy into that report CNN (or whoever it was) did that effectively killed the production of the CJ as we know it!
When a SWB vehicle rolls it was one of a few things that caused it. Things like under-inflated tires, the driver not understanding what they are driving, worn suspension components, lack of ability of the driver to react due to impairment or carelessness. Things like that roll a vehicle, not the fact of it having a Short WheelBase.

Funny thing, the only vehicle I have ever rolled was a Willies pickup. I did that one going backwards down a hill with no brakes (see? faulty components) and spun it 90* on a hiway so fast the front tire blew out and it laid over on its side. That was definately NOT a SWB vehicle and it still rolled. Would a CJ have rolled? YES. And I probably wouldn't be here today.

Sorry for the rant and nothing personal northfaceboy22!
It just pisses me off when someone blames a piece of equipment for their lack of understanding on how to properly use it!

 

[mylittlecj5]

Oh to get back on topic, I have had my little girl in the back and front seat of the CJ since she was about 1 year old, old enough to stand the wind around her head.
I find nothing dangerous about belting in a booster seat ( I happen to have racing belts in the back of mine so its a PITA to buckle them up) in the back seat. She also rides up front when Mom isn't with us, and she Loves that!
Yea I need to install a family cage one day, but it will probably go in the other CJ I'm building (and by the time its running she will be able to take it to college! She's almost 4 now...)

 

[chris insull]

FWIW, all three of my kids have grown up with my CJ since they were infants, and I rode home in my CJ when my dad bought it new on my 6th b-day with no child seat... That being said, when we lived in the "Land of Fruits and Nuts" (AKA Ca.), I had no issues using car seats/ booster seats and the lap belts. Actually, the two oldest went thru the Rubicon twice in car seats, and my son did the TDS three times in a booster. I will admit that I did minimal "at speed" driving on the highways; but all have survived to their current ripe old ages of 19, 16 and 12... Was it THE BEST way to go; probably not, but it worked (thankfully) for me. 'Course I never made them wear bicycle helmets either.

 

[JGirlFL]

Am I totally off my rocker thinking our children will be safe in the Jeep without their car seats with shoulder harnesses? (On street driving)? Or is my wife right that they are not safe with just lap belts (Why would have made the changes to shoulder harnesses if lap belts were safe is her argument) Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Hiya! Sorry to break it to you, but your wife is right. Lap-belts only are not safe for kids. In an accident, a child could be thrown forward, being held only by the lap belt. This can cause compression of their internal organs and severe internal damage. The force of being thrown forward can also break their neck or back leaving them paralyzed or worse. Do a Google search on lap-belt accidents with children- and you will never use just a lap-belt again. Speeds are much higher these days, and there are a lot more vehicles on the road. Going off-road would have similar problems with jerking and pulling, but hopefully not as severe as an on-road accident.

I would recommend you finding a Jeep location or professional seat belt installation (such as seatbeltsplus.com for one example, do some research!) and fit your jeep with the shoulder harness for your children to enjoy your Jeep in their boosters or carseats.:driving:

 

[JGirlFL]

It just pisses me off when someone blames a piece of equipment for their lack of understanding on how to properly use it!

Don't forget that you can't always anticipate the "other guy". The safest driver in the world could be hit by a drunk driver or someone not paying attention. A friend of mine was in an accident a couple weeks ago in her SUV- she was hit by a Wrangler head-on because the driver just swerved into on-coming traffic. They are all fine and well because of seatbelts and her kids (2, 4, 7) were all in carseats and a booster. There were 4 people (2 kids- 11 and 15) in the Jeep and only 1 (mom) had a seatbelt. The mom was the only one that lived.

Having fun is great- but it should not override safety.

 

[susie]

Seatbelts arent always safe. If I am ever in an accident in my pickup, while wearing my shoulder belt (whatever) I will hang. I have gone over this with EMTs, cops, firemen. My seatbelt is not adjustable. And seatbelts are made for 'average' people. Not people who are only 5'.

As for the children... yeah, with everyday there is a new way to keep them safer. I drive a 2006 F-AMC 150 . The middle seats only have lapbelts. Does this mean I cant have more than 2 kids in my truck at one time? I say 2 because they have to be over 12 to be in the front. Bubba rides up front all the time, in town. Highway, he is backseat. Oh but damn! Even though he is 9, I make him ride in the middle...but am I protecting him less? He is in a place where it is supposed to be safer but he is being held in by an inferior seatbelt??? What to do?

 

[CJ]

Seatbelts arent always safe. If I am ever in an accident in my pickup, while wearing my shoulder belt (whatever) I will hang. I have gone over this with EMTs, cops, firemen. My seatbelt is not adjustable. And seatbelts are made for 'average' people. Not people who are only 5'. ~~~

My mother (she is much shorter the 5') has the same problem. We got a seat belt extender for her belt from the GM dealership (they give them away). It moves the belt over so the shoulder belt does not cross her neck.

 

[susie]

The seatbelt in my truck comes out of the seat, rather than the truck (?make sense?) But even when I had the Durango, and it had adjustable ones, I could never get it low enough. Seatbelts just arent for me.

 

[CJ]

The adapter moves the seat belt over - it doesn't matter where it comes from. It is not an adjust but a repositioning... It is simple a buckle that moves the whole belt over to the side so the strap does not go across your neck.

It works perfectly for my 4' 9" Mother... Might just work for you...

 

[jswatson0917]

I want to thank everyone for their input on this little disagreement. I have come to the conclusion that I am off my rocker and that I will agree with the wife with the fact that our two girls wont be riding in the Jeep until they are out of their booster seats. I have thought about putting a YJ roll bar so I could utilize the shoulder harnesses, but I dont have the time energy or the funds for a task like that right now. I wasn't worried about being on the highway because most of the driving that will be done in the Jeep is just cruising around town with the top off. I had also no plans of taking them off road till 1. I have some more experience with it and 2. they are a bit older and able to react to the unexpected.