Lockers

[Rollie]

I'm thinking about lockers for my CJ5 . They are a ways off because I have more pressing projects before I get to them, but I'm thinking about them none the less. So I live in Iowa. We have no mountains or huge rocks to navigate, however snow, ice, and mud are big here. Anyway I will spend much more time running to the grocery store and driving to work than I will be out in the boonies four wheeling. When I do venture off road however I would like all four wheels to help out. So I need a locker that is tame on the streets, but will kick in when I'm out in the South forty hunting pheasants and have to wheel my way out of a slough or down a dirt road after a downpour. The advise of those more experienced that I would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mtnwhlr]

Lockers suck on the street in the snow with a short wheel base. That being said if you want lockers go with a slectable locker so you can choose when to use it.

 

[BusaDave9]

I agree with mtnwhlr.

When I lived in the midwest I had a CJ7 that I used as a daily driver. I had a ARB air Locker. Its the best of both worlds. Keep it unlocked on the street and lock if for off-roading.
The problem with a selectable locker is they are expensive and more involved to install.
Here's more info: http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f105/lockers-limited-slip-differentials-12434/

BTW. I was born and raised in Sioux City Iowa.

 

[diddy2003]

I was looking at getting a lunchbox or detroit auto locker, but I like driving my Jeep on the street. Pretty much everyone says that having an auto locker on the street isn't the greatest, especially in slick terrain. If I had the money I would get a selectable locker.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

Go selectable of don’t do it at all. Mtnwhlr is right, non-selectable lockers in a CJ5 on the street not only suck as he says, but are downright dangerous. The PO of my 1978 CJ5 put Lockrights front and rear that make the jeep hop, skip & jump down the road on dry pavement. In order to turn you have to make sure you are off the gas, turn, and then go again. On ice or light snow the rear end of the jeep will try to pass the front when you least expect it and you’ll end up in your case in a corn field. I know many of the roads in Iowa are gravel or dirt but once they freeze or it snows you’re done.

 

[Old Dog]

I agree don't go full time lockers for the street.
Your choices would be ARB., Ox, or Eaton E-locker.
I think the Eaton is the cheapest of the three and seems to be working good for people.

 

[Niedhogg]

I agree don't go full time lockers for the street.
Your choices would be ARB., Ox, or Eaton E-locker.
I think the Eaton is the cheapest of the three and seems to be working good for people.

I have a Detroit Locker in one of my CJ5s, but as I'm still getting it to a driving stage, I have not been able to experience how it will act and have been a little curious about this as well. As a fellow Iowan, I have the same concerns, although my daily driver is my Q-Trac CJ7 , which I know will do great in the snow. The Detroit locks whenever a tire starts to slip, correct? As long as a driver is cautious around corners, they would be ok. And if a guy has a choice, he should go with a selectable..

 

[jswatson0917]

The Detroit locks whenever a tire starts to slip, correct? As long as a driver is cautious around corners, they would be ok. And if a guy has a choice, he should go with a selectable..

This would be a Limited slip diff. lockers stay locked unless it is a selectable locker

 

[Rollie]

This would be a Limited slip diff. lockers stay locked unless it is a selectable locker

OK, perhaps I am not using the right terms. Is there a Limited slip differential that would work for me? Are we all talking about the same thing? I think that my original post I used the term locker. Maybe I meant Limited slip differential. Is there something that I can put in there that will help me get better traction in snow and mud that won't make it hard to drive on the streets?

 

[jswatson0917]

Limited Slips
A Limited slip differential will aid traction. If one tire starts to slip a Limited slip will apply more torque to the tire that has the best traction. The amount of torque that it applies to the tire with the best traction depends on the bias ratio of the Limited slip. The higher the bias ratio the more aggressive the Limited slip is and the more torque the Limited slip can deliver to the tire with the best traction. A Limited slip with a bias ratio of 4:1 (also called a 60% locking factor) can deliver 4 times more torque to one tire than the other.
There are three types of Limited slips:
Plate clutch Limited slip – these differentials have alternating friction plates. You can tune these Limited slip differentials by changing the order and number of friction plates to get a very high or very low bias ratio. Needs a special oil or oil additive for the clutch such as Amsoil Slip Lock.
Cone Clutch Limited slip – These differentials have a cone shaped clutch on each axle shaft that grips the differential to help send torque to the tire with the best traction. These Limited slip differentials are not tunable. In many cases they are not even rebuildable. This is because the cone grips the differential case itself. When the case is worn the whole differential must be replace. Also needs a special oil additive.
Gear type Limited slip – These Limited slips are a much different design from other differentials. The specially designed gears bind as one tire spins. This type of Limited slip does not require a special additive in the oil.



Automatic Lockers
A locking differential can deliver 100% of the torque to one or both tires even if one tire is off the ground. A locker can unlock to allow some differential action going around turns.
Lockers provide excellent traction to keep the vehicle from getting stuck but they also have the poor directional stability. If you give it a little too much gas going around a turn you can fishtail and loose traction. A locker can always keep you moving but you may not be moving the direction you want. This is not a big problem as long as you are careful when you drive on the street.


Selectable Lockers
A selectable locker (also called On-Demand locker) can be turned off or on. This is the best of both worlds. You can have an open differential for street use when you want control. Then when you are off-road and worried about getting stuck you can activate your locker and both tires on the axle will rotate in unison. Selectable lockers activate with different methods. Some use compressed air to lock the differential. Some are cable activated and the driver moves a small lever. Some selectable lockers are electrical and the driver presses a button to activate the locker.

Selectable lockers have two disadvantages:
1. They cost more
2. They are more involved to install. They may need an air compressor, air lines, cable or wiring.


This was from Dave's Post there is more information here:


http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f105/l...entials-12434/

 

[Old Dog]

The problem with either a locker or a Limited slip is the loss of directional traction when both rear tires lose traction and spin. When this happens in the snow or ice, with most roads having a crown so water runs off, the rear of your jeep will also want to slide off the road. With an open rear or a selectable locker that is turned off, the tire that is not spining will help keep the jeep going in a straight line. Hope this helps some.

 

[PaRenegade]

I agree don't go full time lockers for the street.
Your choices would be ARB., Ox, or Eaton E-locker.
I think the Eaton is the cheapest of the three and seems to be working good for people.

The sad thing is the Eaton is only available for the front Dana 30 . I wish it was available for a rear AMC20 , I'd have one.

 

[Rollie]

The problem with either a locker or a Limited slip is the loss of directional traction when both rear tires lose traction and spin. When this happens in the snow or ice, with most roads having a crown so water runs off, the rear of your jeep will also want to slide off the road. With an open rear or a selectable locker that is turned off, the tire that is not spining will help keep the jeep going in a straight line. Hope this helps some.

I read this last night and it made no sense to me at all. I re-read it this morning and it makes all the sense in the world. I think that in my situation I would be better off just to spend my money on upgrading suspension and steering and forget about Limited slip differentials or lockers. Thanks so much for all the good advise. I think you guys saved me a lot of money on something that I really don't need.

 

[the chief]

Hey Rollie, I have a Detroit locker in the rear of my CJ5 and it's not too bad on the street, a little chirping around tight corners is all. I recently had an Auburn ECTED installed in the front. It's a high biased Limited slip WITH a selectable locker. It seems to be the best of all worlds so far. I wanted a LSD for snow as well and it does work great for snow. Also, I found out this summer that I never had to hit the locker button for rock crawling because the Limited slip works so well and believe me, I tested it severely. I locked the front a few times to check it out and it works fine but steers really stiff.

 

[BusaDave9]

Hey Rollie, I have a Detroit locker in the rear of my CJ5 and it's not too bad on the street,

The difference is you live in Napa CA and Rollie lives in Iowa.
A little snow and lockers are a bad combination. Have to be careful. Not saying don't get a locker. Just be careful. The selectable lockers are much more expensive. A Limited slip is another option. Not as aggressive as a locker and not as expensive as a selectable locker.

 

[the chief]

The difference is you live in Napa CA and Rollie lives in Iowa.
A little snow and lockers are a bad combination. Have to be careful. Not saying don't get a locker. Just be careful. The selectable lockers are much more expensive. A Limited slip is another option. Not as aggressive as a locker and not as expensive as a selectable locker.

You're right, I re-read his post and realised he's intending his CJ to be a daily driver. Mine only sees snow when I'm in the mountains, and that's mostly off road use. He might be better off with Limited slip fore and aft.

 

[RaysCJ5]

Agree if the main use is on road, then selectable or none. Maybe a Limited slip. Had the same questions and thoughts when I looked at locking my jeep up.

I now have a CJ5 with a rear spool and front Aussie (lunchbox). I drive my Jeep onroad much less now because of the manners. (mainly built for offroad, but is licensed)

Anyway, think about something just up front. Especially (cost wise) a lunchbox. That way you can unlock the hubs and you have normal on road characteristics. The stiffness is slightly annoying offroad (expected behavior). But the added traction is amazing. And nothing impacts your traction like a locking mechanism, more aggressive tires, and tire pressure. Nothing.

If you still have the need, then maybe one day add the selectable in the rear.

 

[1986cj7]

The sad thing is the Eaton is only available for the front Dana 30 . I wish it was available for a rear AMC20 , I'd have one.

Not sure if you are referring to the Eaton trutrac Limited slip or a e locker for the AMC20 but the trutac is available for the AMC20 it will have to be order straight from the factory. I had a heck of a time finding mine, a call to 4wd and talking to a rep and they where able to order one straight from the factory. Was about $675 for the AMC20 and $385 for the Dana 30 up front. I have this set-up and love it its good in mud and rocks, not as good as a selectable but a lot better then open. I used this set-up for road manners and snow, all though ever since I've had the set-up going on 2 years haven't seen any snow "damn global warming" The road manners are as close to having open differs. My jeep see's about 50/50 street, off-road. This set-up in my opinion is the best for how I use my jeep, with out going the extra expensence of selectable. But if you have the cash I would suggest selectable all round.

 

[jesseb]

I had a detroit in the rear of my last rig. It had about 110inch wheel base (I know a lot longer than a cj) and it handled great in the snow. Super predictable and fun (you have to drive it as an offroad vehicle on the road not as a Subaru in the snow.) I daily drove that car and went on many road trips in the winter with up to 4 hours of highway driving at a time. It worked fine on the road despite having 35 inch tires, 5.13 gears and a detroit locker in the rear. For the rear I would only do selectable or detroit. I also had an arb front locker. For the front I would only go select able unless you are going to do a ram assist steering because it is hard to turn a locked front axle.