My situation...Any words of wisdom....

[gaberu]

Hi everyone,
First time member. I was hoping for a little advice to a what would you do kind of scenario.
The situation: after taking off my heads and having them gone over at a machine shop, it ends up the reason for the coolant in my oil pan is because of a small crack around my #4 cylinder which I confirmed with a pressure test after I got my heads back and everything put back on.
So that puts me in a tough spot. There is an old guy who has a very reputable shop here in Tempe, Arizona called Hoppers Automotive been there for over 50 years and does a lot of work on Willys, CJ's, J20's and what not. Well he told me if I could tow my jeep there, he can find a replacement block, clean it, bore it, the whole 9 yards and put everything back on and have it up and running for around $3000. So my dilemma is does that sound like a fair deal first of all? And thats not to say I have $3000 buring a whole in my pocket; because I certianly dont. But it is what it is and I've put way to much blood, sweat and tears; oh yeah and money, to give it up on her now and cut my loses. So thankfully my wife whose the greatest is on board in pulling together whatever we have to if that ends up being the route we need to take. And secondly being that I have never installed an entire engine, would another option be ordering a reman. engine online from ATK or some where else which is going to be a round $2000 when all is said and done; freight, tax, core etc. and putting it in myself? Only problem is aside from the technical piece, is that I've read probably reviews on at least 4 online engine houses, and its definitely hit or miss with regards to what you might end up getting with quality/workmanship and customer service.
And like I said, I've never done anything that in depth as to pulling an entire engine and dropping in another one. Though I have replaced and/or rebuilt almost everything myself with the help of a very dirty Jeep Service Manual, a Mosers rebuild manual and a Chiltons; new water pump, new rear main seal-when I discovered crack, new radiator, new suspension, rebuilt 2100, new timing chain, new fuel tank and lines, all new brake hardware, lines and components etc. etc - certainly learned alot.
Any words of wisdom and support would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks everyone.

 

[jdcaples]

How a person spends money is a very personal decision and an, um, "exciting topic" to broach with other Jeepers .

You seem like you're ok with spending money; not thrilled, but ok.

I know that if I were you, I'd probably pay old-jeep guy at Hoppers to breathe new life into the Jeep.... then I'd stop eating out, cancel cable, start bicycling to work and generally clamp down on all expenditures until I got my $3,000 back in the bank.

... but that's me.

Most people I know would suggest saving cash at all costs, pulling the block, putting a sleeve in #4 and enjoy it until it fails, which might be never depending on how you use it.

That costs the least amount of dollars, but you still end up installing an engine when it's all done. That costs time and learning instead of dollars.

You have the skill to learn how to do it. It's an option.

To me, it comes down to a question of how you want to spend your time, not your money.

If you want to enjoy your jeep as soon as possible, let Hoppers do it.

If you want to learn how to remove and install an engine, sleeve it.

I'd skip the new motor, though.

A new motor (according to you and I trust you) is 2/3rds the cost of having Hoppers do it for you and ... and for that extra $1,000 you get free time, fewer mental and physical aches/pains... and probably some kind of warranty on the work.


-Jon

 

[gaberu]

Jon

Thanks for chiming in. And I agree about the money issue. That's without a doubt a very slippery slope of a topic.

And with that being said, you did hit the nail on the head. If I end up going the route of Hoppers, its going to be an extremely tight summer and then some until we can get our footing back or at least as good as it was. Like I said, we definitley do not have that kind of money burning a hole in our pockets but this jeep has been a work in progress for the better part of 5 years. Doing what I can with it, as the means allowed me to financially; more than anything, and time wise.

And I am not willing to throw in the towel any time soon. It was something my dad would stop by and help me tinker with. Although most of the time it was just him sitting in my garage drinking a beer and watching me struggle in my endeavors But it was priceless. Well I lost him 2 years ago. And after a year of composing myself, I started working on her last March, with a committed goal of getting her done in a year. Well low and behold 13 months later while doing the very last repair I needed to do; replacing the rms, I see a small line of coolant coming down the #4 cylinder wall.

Anyways Jon, I do like the sleeve idea and I would certainly not do something based on the reasoning of not doing it because I didnt know how. I think that would be a great notch under the belt, to have pulled and dropped in an engine. And my hats off to all the jeepers who have. that is an awesome accomplishment by any standard-and I am certainly up to the challenge and experience. My only concern is by sleeving it, how much time does that buy me. Do you know many people that have gone that route with worth while success? Granted I dont plan on rock crawling or anything that extreme, but I will definitely be hitting a trail or two where the lockers might have to be used. Most of all its for taking my wife and our 7 year old out in the back country and just having a good time.

Excellent point on the new motor.

Again, thank you very much for your time and expertise Jon.

Gabe

 

[Old Dog]

IMO I don't have any faith in the big reman engine places, I've heard way to many bad stories. I would see what the old man wanted to rebuild it if you took it out and replaced it. Changing an engine is pretty simple.

 

[tarry99]

Sleeves are no big issue and will last as long as the rest of them as long as the right person that has the right equipment does the job! But knowing you have one cracked cylinder for whatever reason may also be warning sign that another could be next.........It is somewhat unusual for cracks in OEM blocks that have not been bored excessively , but in some area's of the country where folks use hard water for coolant without additives can sometimes find there block being eaten up by rust & corrosion from the inside out.

Another thing I did notice was you mentioned that Hoppers would get it up and running for "about $3000" that in itself would give me a little pause for concern, and if you decide to go that way I would surely get them to sign a quote that the $3000 grand is all inclusive for the complete job to get it running again along with a standard guarantee.
Along with that a complete list of all the new parts & machining procedures that would be part of the re-build process should also be listed.

 

[jdcaples]

I named my Jeep after my late father. I lost him in 2010 to cancer. He was proud of me. I'm sure your dad was proud of you.

Make the Jeep happen.

oh, and Tarry99's right. If you go that route - and they wont' give you an all-inclusive quote - request a firm detailed quote, and request updates along the way, watch for cost over-runs at the line-item level.

In Washington State, there are laws around estimates and overages. It's worth looking into at the levels of Arizona, Maricopa and Tempe.

-Jon

 

[Saddle Tramp]

If it were me I would do the swap myself. If you need a lift rent one or buy it. I’m a big believer in using the savings from doing the work yourself to buy the tool then you have the tool for next time. I’ve used S& J Engines in Spokane, Washington in the past with great results. Here’s the link for you 85 CJ..

https://www.sandjengines.com/rebuil...258LB-3?subModel=_&productApplicationID=10587

 

[caveman]

Just another idea. Find a used block yourself and have it rebuilt or buy a rebuilt short block Reuse your head. If you took the head off originally and reinstalled it yourself then you can surely do an engine change yourself.

 

[007]

Here's a local block and crank...

Jeep Wrangler and CJ Parts

Might be worth checking out...

 

[jdcaples]

Jon

<snip>
My only concern is by sleeving it, how much time does that buy me. Do you know many people that have gone that route with worth while success?
<snip>

As others have said, if you sleeve it, you should be fine.

As for your question, I don't know "a lot of people" that have done it.

Back in the early '80s (high school) a friend of mine put a sleeve in a 327 that was in a '68 Chevelle when we graduated. This was done using tools we had in high school auto shop.

The engine ended up in a '70 Nova grocery getter and ran for a little over 250,000 miles before the Nova was sent to the scrap heap (some time after our 20 year reunion).

So in my very Limited 2nd hand experience, a sleeve is a durable fix.

Doing a block transplant is certainly a respectable course.

Consider picking up a set of Clevite bearings (or similar) since a new bearing set is less than $100 and it's nice knowing you have decent crankshaft bearings... or is that just me that enjoys such knowing?

-Jon

 

[Gaberu71]

IMO I don't have any faith in the big reman engine places, I've heard way to many bad stories. I would see what the old man wanted to rebuild it if you took it out and replaced it. Changing an engine is pretty simple.

Thanks Old Dog. I am actually going to stop and talk to Mr.Hopper and see how much savings that would give me. Even if it's not a huge difference it's a pretty good win win on both ends. I save money, I get her up and running and at the same time I gain the experience in pulling and installing an engine. But with that being said I am definitely entertaining the idea of a sleeve too. Made some local call today and got a few resources to call tomorrow for some local machine shops.

 

[Gaberu71]

Here's a local block and crank...

Jeep Wrangler and CJ Parts

Might be worth checking out...

007 Nice find I've been looking on Craigslist for 3 weeks now and haven't found anything. Of course I was using "jeep AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l " as my search.

One question though. How can you tell if your buying a good block? The crack on mine I still can't definitively see but under the pressure test with a new head gasket and good heads; had them checked, a very small sign of coolant dripped out down the cylinder wall. Is there a sure fire way of knowing I'm not getting another AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l paper weight.

 

[jdcaples]

See if the seller will have it magnafluxed for you before you buy it.

Engine rebuild shops will have the tools for this. It takes an electro magnet and some magnaflux powder, as well as some pretty heavy lifting

-Jon

 

[gaberu711]

See if the seller will have it magnafluxed for you before you buy it.

Engine rebuild shops will have the tools for this. It takes an electro magnet and some magnaflux powder, as well as some pretty heavy lifting

-Jon

Thanks Jon. And sorry to hear about your father.

I left a message with the individual on Craigslist 007 gave me so we'll see what happens. Is that expensive to have it magnafluxed?

Also going to be calling a few machine shops here in town just to get an idea on the whole sleeve option.

In case I'm not able to log on to my account again; I've had to re-register 3 times now because once I log off I can never log back in using the username and password I registered with, I wanted to say thanks again to everyone for their advice and feedback-its very much appreciated

 

[Bob dag]

I would sleeve it. Just my 2 cents

 

[jdcaples]

<snip> Is that expensive to have it magnafluxed?
<snip>

I haven't seen a cracked block since high school shop class (over 30 years ago), so I don't know what this kind of service costs.

I wouldn't expect an inspection to be much more than three or of hours' labor and maybe $20-$40 in material; hard to believe people would charge more than that unless there's some kind of shop minimum fee.

When I was a kid, it probably would have been one to 1.5 hours and maybe $2.00 in powder, tops.

I was kind of hoping someone on the forum would tell you there was a better/cheaper way to find a crack than magnafluxing, but no one's said anything yet.

-Jon

 

[Techlight]

If it were me I would do the swap myself. If you need a lift rent one or buy it. I’m a big believer in using the savings from doing the work yourself to buy the tool then you have the tool for next time. I’ve used S& J Engines in Spokane, Washington in the past with great results. Here’s the link for you 85 CJ..

https://www.sandjengines.com/rebuil...258LB-3?subModel=_&productApplicationID=10587

I can second this. I just did this last year on my 84. Total price for the motor with a mild cam was about 1500 after I sent my core back etc. I had to pay the total up front though (something like 1850 or so). I've had zero trouble with it and the guys there are awesome. I called them multiple times with questions and they were always friendly and patient.

You will spend a few more dollars on misc parts putting the reman in there. If you don't want to do it yourself you could always ask a few shops what they would charge for install (if you had a long block shipped to their shop). The install really isn't that hard to do. I had never swapped a motor before...I have wrenched on my own stuff for awhile so I was confident I could do it. If you're detail oriented and label everything and have access to the internet you should be good to go.

If you call SandJ ask to speak to Rory in the warehouse...he'll take care of you. Hope you get it all sorted out as the summer approaches