Shackle lifts... are they a bad idea?

[CJim7]

They are both stamped steel and I wouldn't recommend either. The wrangler ones just have a deeper stamp. But I also wouldn't recommend all aftermarket ones either. Sturdy sides that won't bend and a means to keep the sides always parallel is what you want. Any flex is the job of the bushings.

The YJ shackles have raised edges unlike CJ ones which are basically flat. When I made the decision, the difference in the stock CJ vs the Yj shackles side by side was huge as far as lateral strength goes.

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A one inch shacke lift means the shackles themselves are 2 inches longer than stock. That's unacceptable in my world...lol

 

[Old Dog]

no springs.....just shackles and shocks.
Bare with me by the way, this is all new to me...I remeasured and the front shackles are 8" long with 3 bolts....6 1/2" from center of top bolt to center of bottom (or third) bolt.
The front rocks up and down pretty bad....really think its just the shocks?

That means they are 1 3/4 lift shackles. Chances are real good that you will have some bad steering problems.

To post a pic from your computer just scrol down fron where you are replying and you will see "manage attachments" click that and a window will open that says "brouse" click that button and it will take you to the pics on your computer. click on a pic and hit open than hit upload,(wait a few sec.) and click sumit reply.

 

[Petescj]

Its just my opinion but I wouldnt use a shackle that had more than 1/2 in to 1 in of lift tops. Id rather invest in some good springs then trim a little sheetmetal or add a 1 in body lift for more clearance. I like my Cj to go where I turn it.

 

[jeffonplacid]

Hi...restoring a 64 CJ5 . I like to do things myself and not spend money on expencive lift kits.
I am looking for a 3 in. lift. What would be wrong with making the stationary mounting bracket, for the leaf spring, 3 in. taller and welding it in place of the org. and making 3 in. taller shackels.

 

[PaRenegade]

no springs.....just shackles and shocks.
Bare with me by the way, this is all new to me...I remeasured and the front shackles are 8" long with 3 bolts....6 1/2" from center of top bolt to center of bottom (or third) bolt.
The front rocks up and down pretty bad....really think its just the shocks?

Being that long it probably has your castor too far out and you'd need degree shims to correct it. But it also has increased the twisting force on your hangers. The long shackles now act as a lever, multiplying the lateral force to the hangers.
Shackles are a cheaper alternative to getting lift, but when done correctly. Doesn't sounds like thats the case here. If money isn't an issue then a better solution would be a spring replacement and shorter shackles, and new shocks will be needed either way you go.
If new springs aren't in the budget I'd still go with shorter but beefier shackles and new bushings. Greasable ones are nice because things need to pivot and not be too tight for smoother movement. Maybe 1 1/2" shackles with stronger mounts and some degree shims (steel, not alum.) to address any steering issues. With 1" ones you probably won't need shims.
Add-a-leafs may also be something to look at, which are cheaper than new springs, but a little more work.

It all depends on what size tires you use and what terrain you drive.

 

[TexasBlues]

Maybe 1 1/2" shackles with stronger mounts and some degree shims (steel, not alum.) to address any steering issues. With 1" ones you probably won't need shims.

i was always under the impression that the front axle should NOT be shimmed... is this not the case?

i have 4" Pro Comp springs and greaseable warrior shackles that are 5 7/8" from b2b... based on what i am reading here, im assuming that these are WAY too long, and will cause me problems...

i am also running W/Ts (disk/drum) from an 85 CJ (7 i think)...

in the interest of safety, and to eliminate steering problems, can someone suggest a shackle replacement that will get me back to 'normal'?

i also have the option of adding a 1" body lift, OR using new stock size body bushings... please see the pic below





the rear is shimmed 2* (came with the kit) and the xfer case is dropped 1" (using spacers)...

any input apprciated

 

[PaRenegade]

Well maybe "shims" is a bit of a misleading term. They are actually tapered shims for the sole purpose of adjusting the slant or caster of the front axle. As long as they are bolted to the spring pack and not made of aluminum, they are find to use and the only way to adjust your caster short of re-welding the spring perches at a different angle. Some springs even come with them already on them.
I like the Warrior brand shackles. They're no "Con-Ferr"'s but the closest thing to them that I've seen. I put them on mine for my rebuild. I used the 5" b2b ones for a wrangler, to get me 1" of lift in addition to my OME 2 1/2" springs.
So you can keep the ones you have (hopefully you've beefed up your mounts) and get yourself a $10 angle finder. Measure your caster angle across the top of the steering knuckle. I found theres not much room with the nut on it so I took a socket that fit on top of the ball joint castle nut but around the ball joints shaft. Then measure the angle off of the socket.

 

[Petescj]

Texas Blues while looking at your pic I noticed your drag link is angled pretty hard. I can't te if you have the stock pitman arm or not. With 4in springs and those shackles you need a drop pitman arm to decrease that angle.

 

[TexasBlues]

Texas Blues while looking at your pic I noticed your drag link is angled pretty hard. I can't te if you have the stock pitman arm or not. With 4in springs and those shackles you need a drop pitman arm to decrease that angle.

yes sir, it is...

i do have a 4" drop pitman on it, and also the springs are brand new and theres no weight on it as of yet

I have the flip kit for the tie rod and will wait to see how it all plays out after I drop the engine/xmsn in it... I think that should make it squat some... I don't want to change a bunch of stuff before I know what I have to work with/for/towards if that makes sense

 

[Petescj]

Here's what mine looks like with a little less shackle and a half inch more spring.

 

[tarry99]

Texas Blues while looking at your pic I noticed your drag link is angled pretty hard. I can't te if you have the stock pitman arm or not. With 4in springs and those shackles you need a drop pitman arm to decrease that angle.

Hey Pete, I think I would wait until all the weight is in the Jeep.......once the weight is there and the springs have a chance to settle , the angle may be nothing.

 

[Petescj]

Ok just making sure. I want to do the flip and go back to a stock pitman arm myself

yes sir, it is...

i do have a 4" drop pitman on it, and also the springs are brand new and theres no weight on it as of yet

I have the flip kit for the tie rod and will wait to see how it all plays out after I drop the engine/xmsn in it... I think that should make it squat some... I don't want to change a bunch of stuff before I know what I have to work with/for/towards if that makes sense

 

[TexasBlues]

Well maybe "shims" is a bit of a misleading term. They are actually tapered shims for the sole purpose of adjusting the slant or caster of the front axle. As long as they are bolted to the spring pack and not made of aluminum, they are find to use and the only way to adjust your caster short of re-welding the spring perches at a different angle. Some springs even come with them already on them.
I like the Warrior brand shackles. They're no "Con-Ferr"'s but the closest thing to them that I've seen. I put them on mine for my rebuild. I used the 5" b2b ones for a wrangler, to get me 1" of lift in addition to my OME 2 1/2" springs.
So you can keep the ones you have (hopefully you've beefed up your mounts) and get yourself a $10 angle finder. Measure your caster angle across the top of the steering knuckle. I found theres not much room with the nut on it so I took a socket that fit on top of the ball joint castle nut but around the ball joints shaft. Then measure the angle off of the socket.

Pa-

i have an angle finder and i will do that... thanks

the shims i have are the ones that came with the pro comp lift (tapered, but aluminum front and rear... rear is 2* and i think the front is also 2 or 2.5*)

why should they NOT be aluminum?

what should the caster angle be... or can i look it up in the TSM?

thanks for the quick responses...!

 

[TexasBlues]

Ok just making sure. I want to do the flip and go back to a stock pitman arm myself

i don't know if i can run the stock one with the flip...

again, i have to see how she sits with weight on it... thanks for the heads up though, and addressing it!

 

[Petescj]

These guys and their light weight Jeeps. yeah I should've considered that.

Hey Pete, I think I would wait until all the weight is in the Jeep.......once the weight is there and the springs have a chance to settle , the angle may be nothing.

 

[Old Dog]

Here's an older pic of my 4" lift with stock length shackles and stock pitman arm with the tierod and draglink flipped.


Here's a pic of why you shouldn't use alum. shims, you can see how the spring perch has worn into it. This caused my axle to start twisting even though my u-bolts were tight. these came with my lift kit and I didn't know better at the time.

 

[Petescj]

Thats what Im talking about.

 

[PaRenegade]

Pa-

i have an angle finder and i will do that... thanks

the shims i have are the ones that came with the pro comp lift (tapered, but aluminum front and rear... rear is 2* and i think the front is also 2 or 2.5*)

why should they NOT be aluminum?

what should the caster angle be... or can i look it up in the TSM?

thanks for the quick responses...!

The aluminum ones will not only corrode, as alum. does, but they will crack much easier than steel ones.
The caster should be 5-7 degrees positive, but if it were say 4 degrees, you may still not notice much of an effect. It should be in the TSM too as 5-7.

 

[TexasBlues]

thanks!

i'll be looking into that in the next day or so...

i cant thank you guys enough... great info here!

meanwhile... back at the ranch....

OK... i put a socket on as Pa suggested and it read 3.5-4* positive... thats WITH the 4" springs and the 5 7/8" b2b shackles installed front and rear (obviously)...

IF i added the 2* shims (tapered wedges) that would make me 5.5-6*... which according to the TSM is just about the mid-range of spec...

now, the $4.68 question... IF aluminum wedges are NOT the number one choice, is it worth the added sandwiched between mating surfaces, to add steel wedges?

is there a possibility (im grasping at straws) that it may get a little better with weight and spring settlement?

as always, input is always appreciated!

mk

 

[PaRenegade]

I would probably try it as is, and if your going to get a front end alignment you will find out what it's actually at, via a more accurate laser computer, and any other steering issues will be corrected. So IF it has to be done, wait till later to find out for sure what degree shim you need. But I would switch to steel shims at some point.