Some questions about axles

[JeeperChris]

Thanks for all the help you guys have given me, I'm learning a lot!

I have decided to go with OX manual lockers in the axles. I was going to keep my stock axles for this year and build some Dana 44 's to put in next year but I might move that up and see if I can get these done to have them installed by next winter - the main purpose of having the Jeep is to get me through the snow so why not?

What I need to learn about the axles are the spring pads for the leafs and about the widths of the axles. I plan to do a YJ spring conversion when I do the lift so I have a few questions:

My CJ5 is a '79

I know it's a Narrow Track (NT) - got it.

1. When talking about a Wide Track (WT) is this just meaning the axle width or is there a difference in spring location between NT and WT?

2. For the actual width of the axles what should I use to determine what width I should use? Should I stick with the WT numbers or should I judge my axle width from something else? How do I determine what's the best width?

Thanks

 

[Lumpy Grits]

IIRC-AMC didn't go WT till '82.
You have NT as OEM.
Who knows what a PO may have done.
WT are wider but the spring mounts are the same.
You really need to get a real FSM-
Jeep® Parts Manuals online

LG

 

[mtnwhlr]

IIRC-AMC didn't go WT till '82.
You have NT as OEM.

And the CJ5 had NT until it ended in '83

 

[jp360cj]

Thanks for all the help you guys have given me, I'm learning a lot!

I have decided to go with OX manual lockers in the axles. I was going to keep my stock axles for this year and build some Dana 44 's to put in next year but I might move that up and see if I can get these done to have them installed by next winter - the main purpose of having the Jeep is to get me through the snow so why not?

What I need to learn about the axles are the spring pads for the leafs and about the widths of the axles. I plan to do a YJ spring conversion when I do the lift so I have a few questions:

My CJ5 is a '79

I know it's a Narrow Track (NT) - got it.

1. When talking about a Wide Track (WT) is this just meaning the axle width or is there a difference in spring location between NT and WT?

2. For the actual width of the axles what should I use to determine what width I should use? Should I stick with the WT numbers or should I judge my axle width from something else? How do I determine what's the best width?

Thanks

Assuming you are talking about NT and WT CJ axles, the difference is the overall width. The spring perches are the same distance apart and it's an easy swap. The WT Dana 30 does have the lower shock mounts on the axle tube, where the NT has is on the spring perch. In turn, the upper shock mount for the WT axle is also raised higher, so if you want to put WT axles under a NT CJ, you need to cut the lower shock mount off the WT axle (or raise the upper mount).


You are also mentioning Dana 44 axles...NT and WT are also used to describe FSJ (Full Size Jeep) axles. These are not the same widths a CJ NT & WT. In fact, a FSJ NT is wider than a CJ WT.

So what exactly is the context of your NT vs WT question?


As far as what width, a lot of that depends on what you are doing with the Jeep and how tall it will be. Generally, as you go taller, it's also good to go wider. But also, a lot of the advantages to Jeep, especially a CJ, can come from it's small size. Then there's also the looks parts of it. Check out some pics of other jeeps and see what you think would work well for you.

Some numbers to keep in mind: NT CJs are ~50/53", WT CJs are ~53/56", NT FSJ are around 58-60", YJ/TJ/XJ ~60", WT FSJ ~63-64", JK ~65", F150 ~65", 6 lug chevy ~67". The widths are off the top of my head and may not be exact, but they are ballpark and give you an idea of what you might be looking at.

 

[JeeperChris]

jp360cj, that's the kind of detailed answer I was hoping to find, thank you! Those are the details I needed to fill in my knowledge gaps.

I know I'm probably not too clear in my original post, I'm kinda like a kid trying to tell what he wants when he doesn't really know what it is.

I want to build some Dana 44 axles for my '79 CJ5 . The more I've learned the more I'm certain that's what I want.

Now the question just becomes: Do I want to do CJ WT or FSJ NT?? I really like the sound of the FSJ NT, but either would help get a wider (and safer) stance since this will be a daily driver too.

So moving forward... Dave's Custom has a kit to install Full Width Axles into a CJ. In the product description is says "full size jeep" so I don't know if it means for FSJ NT or WT. If the spring perches are the same distance on both then I guess it wouldn't matter.
If I go with FSJ NT Dana 44 's I would go with this kit: https://davescustomsunlimited.com/jeep-cj-full-width-axle-kit/
and YJ springs.

If I end up with CJ WT Dana 44 's it would all just fall into place and I'd still do YJ springs.

Guess I need to look around and see if I can find some FSJ NT Dana 44 's.

Any info on what to look for there would be another tremendous help!

And I'm still doing the SOA lift with 33's or 35's (and brake upgrades).

Thanks!

 

[jp360cj]

...I want to build some Dana 44 axles for my '79 CJ5 ...

Now the question just becomes: Do I want to do CJ WT or FSJ NT??..

So moving forward... Dave's Custom has a kit to install Full Width Axles into a CJ. In the product description is says "full size jeep" so I don't know if it means for FSJ NT or WT. If the spring perches are the same distance on both then I guess it wouldn't matter...

If I end up with CJ WT Dana 44 's it would all just fall into place and I'd still do YJ springs...

And I'm still doing the SOA lift with 33's or 35's (and brake upgrades).

Thanks!

Remember, there is no such thing as a factory CJ Dana 44 front. So to get a CJ WT width Dana 44 front, you will need to cut down an axle. From what I remember, I think the easiest recipe would be a FSJ NT with 4" chopped off the long side and converted to 5 lugs. Might not be exact, but at least within an inch or so. Also, IIRC, 4" off a FSJ front will put the short side perch under the CJ spring, so no outboarding. Again, you'll need to research and verify the measurements.

You'll also need a rear axle to match the front. If you go CJ WT width on the front, you'll need a CJ WT rear to match. This means converting the 6 lug FSJ axle to 5 lug, which is simple to do, just need the right spindle to fit F150 hubs. For the CJ WT rears, the Dana 44 was only offered partial year and isn't really an upgrade over an AMC20 with 1 piece shafts. And folks tend to think they are made of gold. An AMC20 would do fine, especially for 33s with the tubes welded and 1 piece shafts.

If you go FSJ NT axles, you can just get a set from a NT FSJ (Waggy is most common), but often times the 74-79s (which is what you want for the passenger side drop) had quadratracs with an offset rear that is no good to you. 80s Grand Wagoneer rears will match up nicely, be centered and keep everything 6 lug. Lots of options on the rear with the Waggy width front with the biggest variable being do you want 5 or 6 lug.

FSJ NT and WT have the same perch width.

Do plenty of research with SOA on the FSJ axle. It's doable, but you'll have to grind a new perch into the housing.

 

[mtnwhlr]

Let me throw another log on the fire. People also go with the Scout axles as the are Dana 44s and 5lug.

 

[JeeperChris]

Thanks again guys!

I'm going to take all this info to my mechanic as soon as I get a day off since he has all the contacts around here and can find me anything I need. I know I want Dana 44 's and I like the sound of the width of the FSJ NT so I wouldn't want to shorten them from that. So that will be my goal for now.

My father had a Scout SSII '77. I drove that for many many years. Awesome truck. That's a great idea on the axles from one of those and that full width axle kit I linked will accept the Scout parts.

.....and 6 lugs!!! The more the merrier.

 

[PistolDave]

Later model scout axles are 56" wms/wms on the rear, cant remember on the front. I used a chevy front axle cut to 58.5" on the front of my 77 to go with the scout rear, works great. I used a chevy front axle because I went SOA and the cast in spring pad in the chevy axles are setup up for this. The scout axles are both spring under.

Also note that the scout front axles are setup for a zero degree caster angle. If you use shims to correct this, you end up with your pinion pointing down at the dirt. You have to cut the inner 'C's off of the axle tube and reposition them if you want the geometry to be correct. The pinion pointing down at 5-6 degree angle may not necessarily be an issue depending on lift and intended use, but its something to be aware of since it will limit how fast you can spin the front driveshaft.

 

[jay59l]

I used the Dave’s unlimited outboard kit on my cj and love it. Super beefy and Dave himself gave me some good insight why he went with the standard schakle forward design vs the common schackle reverse most other manufactures use.