springs on top of axles for lift
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springs on top of axles for lift
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BajaEdition
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70 cj6 4 inch lift
It opens a bunch of issues that need to be dealt with
A SOA looks at the front end to be a cheap lift, but it is not and it is not a good thing for a street jeep. If done correct it can be a plus for certain styles of wheeling, if done cheaply it is a nightmare.
Now the debate will begin, but the cost savings are not there because of the work needing to be done.
A SOA looks at the front end to be a cheap lift, but it is not and it is not a good thing for a street jeep. If done correct it can be a plus for certain styles of wheeling, if done cheaply it is a nightmare.
Now the debate will begin, but the cost savings are not there because of the work needing to be done.
1986cj7
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x2 IMO buy the time you fix all the steering angles that are caused by the soa lift, it will be cheaper and easier to put on a 4" suspension lift. Where most of your steering angles can be corrected with a drop Pittman arm. Not to mention the drive shaft angles that will have to be addressed.
Which even with the 4" suspension lift if you don't want to use a Transfer Case lowering kit to correct still have to be addressed just not as extreme. But also it deepens on what you want and how much lift you want. But the higher you go the higher your center of gravity will be and stability can be an issue.
Old Dog
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To do SOA right you will need high steer knuckles and arms, new tie rod and draglink and a antiwarp bar for the rear, and probably new springs. None of this is cheap. think twice as much as new lift sperings.
You will get 5-6 inches of lift with stock springs, do you need that much.
You will get 5-6 inches of lift with stock springs, do you need that much.
Razorfish
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Seems like either way the steering issues will be the same. The axle is moving the same distance from the body/frame either way. The difference being that most (or all) spring kits come with all the parts you need. A DIY SOA won't. However I was looking at an SOA kit that comes with everything too. Sorry I forgot the link.
Seems like the biggest factor (possibly only factor) is doing an SOA which will either be a crappy kit, partial kit or completely DIY. In which case there is a very high probability of partial failure or a completely cluster-firetruck.
Seems like the biggest factor (possibly only factor) is doing an SOA which will either be a crappy kit, partial kit or completely DIY. In which case there is a very high probability of partial failure or a completely cluster-firetruck.
Jimbos76cj
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There's a few issues with the steering. One of the biggest issues you will run across is when you put the springs on top the spring pack will interfere with the steerin linkage. You will need a high steer set up. The further your steering linkage is out of parallel the greater your bump steer. When you SOA your looking at almost 6" of lift which will make it hard to correct with adding in some crazy shaped drag link which will either be weak or still cause bump steer.
At about 4" of lift you start running the chance of drive line vibration. At 6" it's almost Garaunteed so you will need to look into cv axles. The SOA also caused axle wrap on the rear which will need ladder or traction bars to fix.
Yes some vehicle came with SOA rears. The rear is not as bad as the front because you don't have to worry about the steering. Now with that being said there will be people who think its the best thing and not listen to what I'm sure is a ton of year and large number of do-overs when it comes to suspensions.
Look up steering angle nightmares, bump steer and such on google. For a dd or a street driven rig it's not a good idea. Good luck.
At about 4" of lift you start running the chance of drive line vibration. At 6" it's almost Garaunteed so you will need to look into cv axles. The SOA also caused axle wrap on the rear which will need ladder or traction bars to fix.
Yes some vehicle came with SOA rears. The rear is not as bad as the front because you don't have to worry about the steering. Now with that being said there will be people who think its the best thing and not listen to what I'm sure is a ton of year and large number of do-overs when it comes to suspensions.
Look up steering angle nightmares, bump steer and such on google. For a dd or a street driven rig it's not a good idea. Good luck.
Razorfish
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Hardly worth making a new thread for this but what about a hydrolic steering kit. I see they're pretty expensive, but would this eliminate all the for-mentioned steering issues?
Kane
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Hydraulic steering will not allow the wheels to self center. It would be like driving a fork lift at a high rate of speed.
CJ007
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I guess I'm the only one on the site with an SOA. 
As mentioned by Bajaedition, there are good uses and lots of arguements to be had 
IMO, the good and the bad....
Good- better clearance-nothing hanging under the axles other than a u bolt against the tube (and looks better), better flex due to flatter springs that give better in each direction, softer ride.
Bad-Will wrap springs easier, center of gravity is higher, more labor intensive that adds to expense. The cost is from moving rear shock mounts, extending front/moving rear, perches, pitmman arm and cv driveshaft, springs for a YJ are $100 on craigslist or keep the CJ's. Most of the issue is the work involved.
Again, minority opinion here
but I say steering issue and complaints are from people doing it wrong. The problem stems from not getting the angles and perches right.
First, you have to make sure perches are lined up exactly over the old ones, that they are exactly in line across from each other on the axle, and that the diffs are set at the proper angle. The rear set to mate to a CV and the front only a few degrees max to not affect steering.
Also, you can't cut corners and just use the standard perch that comes in a package on the front passenger side. Part of the spring rides on the lip of the diff from the factory, so you have to either fab one similar to the underside stock one which is solid to bear weight due to the shape, unlike standard pads, or cut/grind off and use for the passenger side perch if keeping the same width spring.
Last, you need to tack on and set up under the springs with weight on to make sure angles line up. Then pull out and adjust or weld up. This could be more than one time.
I don't run high steer and I don't have bump steer or issues and can go as fast as my little T-18 and 4.56 will take me on the freeway 70-75? Depending on how soft/flat your springs are, should be 5-5.5" of lift. I have heard some cheap pittman arms are an issue with steering as well, basically they are the same length as stock initially but shaped for a 4" drop so they are short. My ties rods are only about 1.5" each other where the pitman meets the rod. They are still parallel and rods are not pulled away from each other.
As mentioned by Bajaedition, there are good uses and lots of arguements to be had IMO, the good and the bad....
Good- better clearance-nothing hanging under the axles other than a u bolt against the tube (and looks better), better flex due to flatter springs that give better in each direction, softer ride.
Bad-Will wrap springs easier, center of gravity is higher, more labor intensive that adds to expense. The cost is from moving rear shock mounts, extending front/moving rear, perches, pitmman arm and cv driveshaft, springs for a YJ are $100 on craigslist or keep the CJ's. Most of the issue is the work involved.
Again, minority opinion here
but I say steering issue and complaints are from people doing it wrong. The problem stems from not getting the angles and perches right. First, you have to make sure perches are lined up exactly over the old ones, that they are exactly in line across from each other on the axle, and that the diffs are set at the proper angle. The rear set to mate to a CV and the front only a few degrees max to not affect steering.
Also, you can't cut corners and just use the standard perch that comes in a package on the front passenger side. Part of the spring rides on the lip of the diff from the factory, so you have to either fab one similar to the underside stock one which is solid to bear weight due to the shape, unlike standard pads, or cut/grind off and use for the passenger side perch if keeping the same width spring.
Last, you need to tack on and set up under the springs with weight on to make sure angles line up. Then pull out and adjust or weld up. This could be more than one time.
I don't run high steer and I don't have bump steer or issues and can go as fast as my little T-18 and 4.56 will take me on the freeway
70-75? Depending on how soft/flat your springs are, should be 5-5.5" of lift. I have heard some cheap pittman arms are an issue with steering as well, basically they are the same length as stock initially but shaped for a 4" drop so they are short. My ties rods are only about 1.5" each other where the pitman meets the rod. They are still parallel and rods are not pulled away from each other.
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Jimbos76cj
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Full hydro is really expensive and are illegal on the street. Hydro assist is not as pricey but, the bump steer is not truly caused by the tire moving it comes from the way the drag link moves when the front springs are compressed and move in an arc. death wobble can be masked by a hydro assist but the tires will still have the urge shake and will likely cause premature wear.