Starter engages then kicks out

[billyocup]

I tried starting my 75 CJ5 with AMC 304 V8 today, that I've been working on for the past 20 months.

The starter intially engages for 3 or 4 seconds, turning the engine, then kicks out and free spins. The starter is new and the ring gear on the fly wheel is new. We jumped the battery, thinking that it may have been weak after sitting around for the past 2 years, but with the same result.

We then jumped from the battery direct to the starter and it stayed engaged and turned the engine. Is the starter relay the culprit? It's the only part that I didn't replace

As always any help will be greatly appreciated - Bill

 

[jeepboy45]

I had the very same problem.
It started as a problem every third or fourth time I turned the key, and became more frequent until it turned into every time I tried to start it.


In your case a bad battery makes sense, in that there might be enough power to initially engage the bendix but after a second or two, backs out due to lack of battery power. But you said that jumping it from the battery fixed it.

I had a brand new battery so I knew that wasnt my problem.
I had an extra starter on a shelf and changed it in under 15 minutes. That immediately fixed my probem.

A starter solenoid is relatively cheap. I'd go that route first. Much easier than any other fix.

An ignition switch might be the culprit though if the solenoid doesnt fix it.

When you jumped right from the battery to the starter, you bypassed both the ignition switch and the solenoid. I'd throw in a spare solenoid to see if that is the fix, and move toward the ignition switch second.

 

[IOPort51]

I am thinking solenoid and try a jumper from the battery to the ignition terminal on the solenoid before blaming the switch.

 

[tarry99]

I tried starting my 75 CJ5 with AMC 304 V8 today, that I've been working on for the past 20 months.

The starter intially engages for 3 or 4 seconds, turning the engine, then kicks out and free spins. The starter is new and the ring gear on the fly wheel is new. We jumped the battery, thinking that it may have been weak after sitting around for the past 2 years, but with the same result.

We then jumped from the battery direct to the starter and it stayed engaged and turned the engine. Is the starter relay the culprit? It's the only part that I didn't replace

As always any help will be greatly appreciated - Bill

Bill did you go through the relay or bypass it when you jumped direct?
If it worked direct............I would think that should eliminate the starter & solenoid............If you jumped around then check the relay by jumping around it. But I would also be looking for a loose / dirty connection on the positive or negative side of Ground on your primary wiring and then proceed to looking till you get back to the switch.

 

[billyocup]

jeepboy45, IO & tarry99 -

Thanks for the reponse.

When we jumped the starter direct, we went direct from the battery to the starter, by-passing the ignition switch and starter relay. The starter stayed engaged and turned the engine. I think that would eliminate the starter and solenoid. All of the wiring in the ignition circuit is new, including the battery and ground cables. The only pieces that weren't replaced with new are the starter relay and the ignition switch.

The ignition switch appears to be working ok. It's making the connection. The starter relay seems like it's not transferring enough amperage to keep the starte engaged. Is there any way to test the starter relay or should I just get a new one?

Bill

 

[Torxhead]

Starter Solenoid Wiring Question - JeepForum.com

 

[tarry99]

jeepboy45, IO & tarry99 -

Thanks for the reponse.

When we jumped the starter direct, we went direct from the battery to the starter, by-passing the ignition switch and starter relay. The starter stayed engaged and turned the engine. I think that would eliminate the starter and solenoid. All of the wiring in the ignition circuit is new, including the battery and ground cables. The only pieces that weren't replaced with new are the starter relay and the ignition switch.

The ignition switch appears to be working ok. It's making the connection. The starter relay seems like it's not transferring enough amperage to keep the starte engaged. Is there any way to test the starter relay or should I just get a new one?

Bill

Bill,

The relay has a coil inside that's triggered by 12 volts from the Ignition. They are normally metal or copper clad........they can become corroded and not allow a complete contact which could cause the intermittent contact to the starter. Not sure if you have a 1 or 2 wire relay.........you can take the wire / wires off from the Ignition and trigger it directly from the battery with a set of jumper clips using primary wire...............if it works from there it then could be your ignition switch.........keep in mind your Ignition switch also has similar copper contacts inside that can become corroded or worn over time.
And as I mentioned before a loose contact or bad ground could also be an issue.

 

[billyocup]

Starter Solenoid Wiring Question - JeepForum.com

Torxhead - thanks for the link. After reading that, I think the first thing I will try is getting a good ground attached to the relay (solenoid). It's currently just attached to the firewall with sheet metal screws and the firewall is coated with bedliner, so that very well may be the issue.

Will give that a try and let you all know the result.

Thanks - Bill

 

[Torxhead]

If you run a ground wire to the starter relay, you can extended it all the way to the alternator and even the headlights. The CJs used steel and cast iron to transfer the ground or negative current and they both are a poor conductor of electricity as compared to copper wire.

 

[jasonmark1993]

Torxhead - thanks for the link. After reading that, I think the first thing I will try is getting a good ground attached to the relay (solenoid). It's currently just attached to the firewall with sheet metal screws and the firewall is coated with bedliner, so that very well may be the issue.

Will give that a try and let you all know the result.

Thanks - Bill

Think you got it right there!

 

[billyocup]

Well I ran a ground wire from the starter relay to the frame and the starter is still kicking out. Ordered a new relay and will try to get that installed tomorrow and see if that's the problem. Hope so!

 

[jeepboy45]

Well I ran a ground wire from the starter relay to the frame and the starter is still kicking out. Ordered a new relay and will try to get that installed tomorrow and see if that's the problem. Hope so!

I doubted it was a ground issue. Just my opinion that if the starter got enough power to engage the bendix, and begin turning the engine, that it wouldnt suddenly NOT have a good ground and jump back out.

At least you are narrowing it down though. AND having many grounds is excellent idea anyway.

 

[tarry99]

Well I ran a ground wire from the starter relay to the frame and the starter is still kicking out. Ordered a new relay and will try to get that installed tomorrow and see if that's the problem. Hope so!

Billy,

Looks like your getting closer.............a good way to eliminate any question of a ground is to first make a jumper that runs directly from the battery's ground post to the Item that is in question.
That would be the path of least resistance.

 

[jasonmark1993]

Do you have a volt meter? Doing a voltage drop test across all the components/circuits to confirm or eliminate them would be easiest.

 

[billyocup]

Still no luck. Replaced the relay. Ran a ground direct from battery ground terminal to the mounting bracket on the relay. Still doing the same thing. Will try to get my electrical engineer neighbor back over here with his meters, but I'm running out of ideas.

 

[tarry99]

Still no luck. Replaced the relay. Ran a ground direct from battery ground terminal to the mounting bracket on the relay. Still doing the same thing. Will try to get my electrical engineer neighbor back over here with his meters, but I'm running out of ideas.

Billy,
Did you try removing the switch wire from the relay and bringing 12 volts direct from the battery? That would bypass the switch.
Wiring an impromtu switch between that relay and the battery would be a good Idea..........Once you have elimiated that then your back to the starter & solinoid.

 

[billyocup]

Billy,
Did you try removing the switch wire from the relay and bringing 12 volts direct from the battery? That would bypass the switch.
Wiring an impromtu switch between that relay and the battery would be a good Idea..........Once you have elimiated that then your back to the starter & solinoid.

tarry99 - Thanks for the idea. I'll give that a try and let you know - Bill

 

[billyocup]

So after trying all the suggestions with no luck, I went back to my local NAPA store where I got the starter and talked to my buddy Tim. He said it sounded like something was wrong with the starter, so I pulled it out and took it back so he could test it. The starter would spin, but as soon as any resistance was put on the gear, it would kick out.

The new one is coming tomorrow

 

[tarry99]

So after trying all the suggestions with no luck, I went back to my local NAPA store where I got the starter and talked to my buddy Tim. He said it sounded like something was wrong with the starter, so I pulled it out and took it back so he could test it. The starter would spin, but as soon as any resistance was put on the gear, it would kick out.

The new one is coming tomorrow

Billy,

Just a process of elimination..................I knew we would hit on the problem sooner or later.
Notwithstanding the obvious with a New part failure. I guess that's what makes life interesting!

 

[jeepboy45]

Good to hear you've got it figured out.
It stinks when you rule out a part because it is has just been replaced. Then move onto something else in the chain, when all along it was what you initially thought.

At least you got a couple of good new grounds and a new solenoid out of the process!! Next time tell the wife/GF that you think it needs a new winch or a new set of tires to fix it...!!