Starter Ring gear

Starter Ring gear
D

dslywalker

Full Time Jeeper
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Location
Glendale,Arizona
Vehicle(s)
1983 CJ7,258,stock
Original Owner
Got a friend with 81, AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l thats chewing up starters. He's went thru 5 now all rebuilt. He started out with 3 Auto Zone and 2 Napa's. When he put in the 3rd starter he changed the ring gear and since went thru 2 Napa starters. Guy at Napa told him on the first Napa starter to make sure he had 179 teeth on the new ring gear before he put the starter in [4th one] cause they also made a 169 tooth ring gear which he could have gotten also. The gear had 179 teeth so he put in the 5th starter which I looked at tonite and it looked like the bendix teeth were slamed in hard and it only lasted 2 weeks. I also noticed the bushing on the end of the starter was shot. Do they have that much trouble with rebuilt starters and how many teeth should be on the ring gear? Has anyone ever hd thi problem before?
Thanx Mike:chug:
 
I have never heard of anything like this. You mite try shimming the starter out with sheet metal to see if it is too deep for some reason. when he changed the ring gear was there any signs of damage to it??:cool:
 
I had issues previously with the 3B although does not sound like it is your problem. With a less than fully charged battery the starter gear would not get thrown out hard enough to make full engagement and after enough of this over many years it made a mess out of the ring gear and would go thru starter gears fairly quickly. The other problem we had was a worn switch that would stick sometimes in start and not return to run possition when you let go of the key and that would spell dissaster for the starter in pretty short order.
I know this is not related to the symptoms you discribe but is food for thought maybe?
 
IOPort51 said:
I have never heard of anything like this. You mite try shimming the starter out with sheet metal to see if it is too deep for some reason. when he changed the ring gear was there any signs of damage to it??:cool:
Click to expand...
He said there was signs of wear but it was the original one but nothing significant.When you try and start it it hits hard and just grinds and screams even with the new gear and starter.Somtimes it sticks on previous ones but went away with new gear.New gear and starters do the same noise but it doesn't stick.Shimming my be the option.He's taking out the ring gear again and taking it in with the starter.
I've never heard of this either.I told him to get a new starter this time instead of rebuilt.
 
Sasquach said:
I had issues previously with the 3B although does not sound like it is your problem. With a less than fully charged battery the starter gear would not get thrown out hard enough to make full engagement and after enough of this over many years it made a mess out of the ring gear and would go thru starter gears fairly quickly. The other problem we had was a worn switch that would stick sometimes in start and not return to run possition when you let go of the key and that would spell dissaster for the starter in pretty short order.
I know this is not related to the symptoms you discribe but is food for thought maybe?
Click to expand...
Battery seems good and strong when its engaged.But I'll tell him to test it under load.I've had problems with rebuilts in the past and only buy new.Thanx Mike
 
My bet is on shims, or lack of them. The starter has to be lined up so the pinion gear on the starter makes full even contact with the ring gear (parallel with each other so contact is not angled), if they do not the starter, ring gear, or both will suffer. Most often if there were shims used with the original starter and you put them back as they came off while installing the new starter the pinion will be properly lined up, but not always so it is good to check once everything is tightened up to spec.
 
It seems to me that removing a ring gear from a flywheel is something you don't just do on the spur of the moment. I am wondering if the gear is out of round??
Put some kind of marker, Dykum, Prussian blue or even magic marker on the drive gear ans see where it is hitting when it engages. :cool:
 
Got the flywheel off and to the machine shop. He put the first gear on without checking for trueness.Definately something is off.He's a young kid but learning.Soon as he gets a computer I'll get him on the forum.I'll let you know when it comes back.
He Also learned about dykum.Never set it on your crotch when your done.Never seen a person crawl out from under a Jeep that fast.
Starter wasn't far off according to the imprints but with this much problem its best to check all parameters.
Thanx Guys:chug:
 
I had to shim mine with a dime to get it to start and have had no problems since. Don't know if this will help.
 
This may sound silly, but the flywheel may be warped. I have a 66 GTO with this problem. Want to type more but will leave it at that for now. Any thoughts?
Jeff
 
CJ said:
No offense, but Dykem is a machinist marking fluid or paste that has been around for a 100 years. -->>McMaster-Carr -->> MSC Google Search Results

All machinist are introduced to marking fluids as soon as they start the learning process. My advice is to find another shop, then help him out to learn. It's up to you if you want to be the process by which he learns.
Click to expand...
:confused: guess I'm not understanding this.
Anyway we got the flywheel back from the shop.It was warped and the ring gear he put on before was tweaked from installing wrong.Got it together and starts fine with a new Napa starter.Also hearing that people are having problems with rebuilt Napa starters with the nose cone bushing being loose and wobbling around.
Thanx for all the advise
 
Hey Mike, how the hell are ya? This is your CK buddy Skip. I'm having this very same issue with my CJ. The starter motor just flew all to pieces and jammed up the flywheel to where I couldn't even rotate the engine over with a breaker bar. A piece came out when backing out the tranny. So the guy that's working on this for me found online threads with your's being one of them. I shoulda known you be in the middle of this. :O)
 
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