Steering/leaf spring question

[moparharn]

When I put my 78 CJ7 lock to lock I get a loud metal clank or sound of metal bending. Upon investigation I found the front leaf eyes are moving on the shackles when the frame is pushed in either direction when the steering travel is over (lock to lock). It looks like the shackle bushings float inside the leaf eye as I can see a lot of clearance between the shackle bushing and the spring eye. it is this clearance that is allowing the spring to move on steering lock. Is it supposed to be this way? The shackle bushing looks like it has a metal sleeve over it? The bushings I just bought look like they are supposed to slide into the spring eye. I am confused. How do I stop this travel/play/slop? Bill

 

[hdgapeach]

Like I stated in your earlier post about steering; those original bushings are more than likely dry rotted. Your new replacement ones should help the situation you're describing.

Keep in mind, though, once you hit the steering lock the only movement you're going to get is side torque on stuff not intended to move so much in a side to side direction. Brand new everything is going to give some to relieve the pressure: i.e. - frame cracks, steering box brackets bend & crack, shackles torque to the sides, leaf springs twist at funny angles, etc. Don't put unnecessary pressure on the steering past hitting the stops. And if you're turning the steering wheel with the tires on the ground, that introduces more than normal pressure on the system when compared to when the wheels are rolling down the road. That'll magnify what you normally wouldn't see.

The new bushings won't need that bushing sleeve you mentioned (unless your new ones are original style). You more than likely will have to remove that bushing to even install the new set. Sometimes the rubber will come out and the metal sleeve will stay rusted in place making the hole too small to insert the new bushing. Saws-all, hammer & punch or drift are popular tools to remove the rusted in place sleeves (pain in the hind parts!)

 

[moparharn]

I probably did not make myself clear enough. There is a HUGE gap between the spring eye and metal sleeve of the bushing. There will also be a HUGE gap between the new rubber bushings and the spring eye. Is the shackle bushing OD supposed to be close to the spring eye ID? I thought this was a tight fit. I will try to attach a picture here to show what my jeep currently looks like. Bill

 

[Techlight]

There should be no gap between your bushings....in your pic it looks like you have no bushing whatsoever....I'd be afraid to drive it that way

As a note I think most call the rear that bolts to the static frame hanger "spring eye bushings" and the other (closest to the bumpers) shackle bushings.

The shackle bushings aren't as involved as the spring eye bushings...but as posted sometimes the sleeves cause trouble.

 

[hdgapeach]

I'd say that bushing ain't wore out......It looks like it's GONE!

The pic is a little blurry but if there is any rubber inside the sleeve, I can't see it. The original bushings had a metal sleeve that the bolt went through. That looks like what you still have in there around the through bolt. Then you had the thick rubber bushing part. The outside circumference of the rubber had another metal sleeve. The only part of the bushing rubber that was visible was from the sides of the bushing. The bushing's outer metal sleeve fit inside the spring eye.

New poly bushings replace the whole rubber bushing assembly - inner sleeve, rubber bushing and outer sleeve.

I'll go down to the shop and take a couple of pics for comparison. I have two original sets of leaf springs. One set has poly bushings and the other still has the original rubber bushings. The poly bushings should be a snug fit inside the leaf eye. If it's not at least snug, the spring eye may be "sprung" open causing the slackness.

 

[Old Dog]

I agree, I don't see a bushing at all.

 

[mtnwhlr]

I probably did not make myself clear enough. There is a HUGE gap between the spring eye and metal sleeve of the bushing. There will also be a HUGE gap between the new rubber bushings and the spring eye. Is the shackle bushing OD supposed to be close to the spring eye ID? I thought this was a tight fit. I will try to attach a picture here to show what my jeep currently looks like. Bill

Dude what happend to your bushing I have never seen one completely gone as said before that is unsafe to drive.

 

[moparharn]

Actually, we are all wrong. Nothing answers questions like taking stuff apart. What looks like a inner bushing is really one of TWO leafs that wrap around to form the eye. The rubber goes into what we were thinking was what was left of the metal inner. New rubber installed. Although I still think the outer leaf wrap is going to clank around and hit the inner leaf wrap. Thank for all of your help. Bill

 

[Techlight]

Can you post a pic? Something doesn't sound right...there's not suppose to be any space between the bushing and the spring. I'd be curious to see it either way ....

 

[moparharn]

The picture I posted shows the gap between the two leafs wrapped to form the eye. There is no gap between the bushing and the spring, but there is a gap between leaf number one that forms the eye the bushings go into, and leaf number two which wraps loosely around leaf number one. The noise comes when the frame shifts left and right when turning lock to lock, leaf number two moves a little and bangs into either the shackle or leaf number one (I think the shackle). I guess the trick is don't turn the steering wheel all the way over, but I don't remember this being an issue on my other cm's. I replaced the bushings last night and only the flanges were weather cracked, the barrel of the bushing looked like new. I will try the lock to lock test tonight and see if the new bushings helped any. Bill

 

[moparharn]

You know, I went on ebay and looked at used CJ springs and a whole bunch of new springs, and not one of them had a double wrap leaf eye. Every spring I have seen has a single eye wrap coming off the main leaf with the shackle bushings inside of it. Has anyone else seen this double wrap eye on the front of the front spring? Bill

 

[tarry99]

You know, I went on ebay and looked at used CJ springs and a whole bunch of new springs, and not one of them had a double wrap leaf eye. Every spring I have seen has a single eye wrap coming off the main leaf with the shackle bushings inside of it. Has anyone else seen this double wrap eye on the front of the front spring? Bill

The double wrap or Military Wrap is the way to go..............they keep the pack tighter together , add a little softness to the ride and If you brake a main leave you can still get home or back to camp.........that version costs a little more but will worth it...........
All leaf springs like to flex & move a little , and should be taken apart from time to time and lubricated........most good springs built now have teflon washers / pucks between the leaves for that purpose............the noise is more than likely the springs grinding against each other while turning.

 

[Torxhead]

Something like this:Customize - 4" Suspension Lift Kit - Jeep CJ5, CJ7, Scrambler 406H

 

[Tinman22]

Had a set of springs made stock yj rate with military wrap. The only way to go if your going where nobody can come rescue you.

 

[moparharn]

Well that solves that. Great information. Thank you for sharing it with me. I might try to lubricate the springs somehow, or just avoid the lock to lock.
Does anyone know if my Jeep could have come stock with these springs? The Jeep looks bone stock with 12,000 miles and was owned by an elderly man and his wife. Were they swapped out, or did it come with them on a base model in 1978?

Bill

 

[hdgapeach]

Wow! I was deceived by my own eyes. With the added info I can really see the doubles. I like the military wrap leaf packs. Wish I had a set on mine.

You can try pressure washing the pack to get some of the grit and crud out from between the leafs. I have seen re-furbed packs with plastic (Teflon maybe?) sheets between the individual leafs. Guess that would cut down on the grinding but I don't think anything would keep the larger spring eye from possibly flexing into the shackle when under the stress of side torque.

 

[Techlight]

Wow! I was deceived by my own eyes. With the added info I can really see the doubles. I like the military wrap leaf packs. Wish I had a set on mine.

You can try pressure washing the pack to get some of the grit and crud out from between the leafs. I have seen re-furbed packs with plastic (Teflon maybe?) sheets between the individual leafs. Guess that would cut down on the grinding but I don't think anything would keep the larger spring eye from possibly flexing into the shackle when under the stress of side torque.

Wow...I thought there was no bushing for sure.

I'm also wishing for a set on mine, but I'm pretty sure I'm getting coal in my stocking for my shady use of child slave labor

 

[007]

Hmmm. It appears I have these too on my stock 77 CJ7 .

Count the leaves going into the shackle area.



And here I have the double wrap it appears...






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[RVA CJ]

Err on safety, get four new leafs.


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[lutry]

I have the same on my 79 CJ7 .
It is the extra heavy duty suspension, which could be factory ordered.
If you have in you VIN on the sixth digit an H, that means a
GVW rating of 4850, that is the XHD (extra heavy duty) version.
In general the sixth digit say:
A 3750
E 4150
H 4850