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Steering resistance and darting

Steering resistance and darting

DrDoc

Jeeper
Posts
103
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Location
Sioux Falls
Vehicle(s)
1980 CJ7, 258
Gather 'round for a story. It's going to wordy but I want to be sure to include everything as I'm not sure what is important. I have had my Jeep for a little over a year, and as far as I know it is pretty much factory other than the fiberglass tub. It is my daily driver, and ran and drove fine all winter. It had a power steering fluid leak from the return line at the gear, but nothing major. Suddenly a couple months ago, while driving to work, I noticed it wandering more than normal. I also noticed that I started feeling resistance when trying to correct to the right while driving, after the resistance was overcome the Jeep would dart to the right. That night it got parked in the garage.

Doing some basic PS research, it sounded like binding somewhere so I started looking things over. If I was driving and just stopped, I could hang my head out the window, feel the resistance, and see the wheel kind of jump as applying more pressure to the wheel to the right, but after the first time it would not happen again until I drove it around a bit. Sitting in the garage on the ground I could not feel or see anything. Having someone slowly steer left and right while I watched the linkage and everything and I saw nothing but a little flexing of the steering gear support bracket, but nothing major (I think). “Checking” the tie rods and all seem fine, no play as far as I can tell. I then got the front up on stands and manually turned left-right and still didn't feel any binding. Wiggled around things around a bit more and found some play in the front-left wheel bearing, a bent swaybar link on the front-left, cracked bent and welded shock plat on the same side, and of course the PS leak on the gear. As far as I can tell the ball joints look good, couldn't get any play out of them. Thought maybe the wheel play might have something to do with it so ordered parts and waited a week. Got the wheel play fixed (bearing looked fine, someone before just didn't know how to set the preload), got the PS lines replaced and leak free, also replaced the PS pump while at it. Flushed the PS system and refilled. Took a test-drive and it seemed to have gotten worse, with the resistance happening at lower speeds and the dart/jump more pronounced. Have a family friend that owns a little shop, took it in there and explained what's its doing and took a quick test drive. During that test drive it started to resist and dart to the left as well but less wandering. He put it on the lift and noticed a bit too much play in the steering shaft. It had the old style coupler, and he thought looking in the torn boot that the bearings in there were shot. Another guy in the shop thought it likely the steering gear, but also thought the shaft could be the issue. So I ordered a new shaft HD shaft and installed that, NO CHANGE, and even worse. Between waiting for parts and family things (3 little kids and a birthday in there) this has taken over 2 months so far. Before ordering any more parts I wanted to be more sure, especially given the cost of the steering gear. I decided to lock the hubs, just to see, and BOOM, issue gone. Went to a large parking lot, unlocked the hubs and drove around for 20 minutes, no issue. Drove around town for another hour, nothing more than some minor resistance but never really the darting. Got home, jacked it up again, and manually turned the wheels while rotating with the hubs both locked and unlocked, didn't see any play in the u-joints or binding, but not really sure how else to check them without removing the axles.

So, this is my question to you expert Jeep-ers, do I pull the axles out or is there still something else I can check? I'm really sick of not driving it and having to get rides everywhere. Also sick of just throwing parts at it. Any input is greatly appreciated.
 
Well I think your on the right track..........sounds like a steering gear....I assume that has the stock Saginaw 800 gear still in there? should be a large 76 cast into the housing in the front bottom near the bell shaped end. Not that expensive for a re-man at Napa or Rock.

Pull the cover off the front axle......perhaps a prior owner stuck a lunchbox locker in there or a Posi unit that is locking up? Wandering could be Caster in the front axle...........no easy fix , just a process of elimination.
 
Well I think your on the right track..........sounds like a steering gear....I assume that has the stock Saginaw 800 gear still in there? should be a large 76 cast into the housing in the front bottom near the bell shaped end. Not that expensive for a re-man at Napa or Rock.

Pull the cover off the front axle......perhaps a prior owner stuck a lunchbox locker in there or a Posi unit that is locking up? Wandering could be Caster in the front axle...........no easy fix , just a process of elimination.

Thanks for the reply Tarry99. I thought that locking the hubs and having the problem go away would have ruled out the steering gear, that combined with it only happening while driving. I would have expected an issue with the gear to be more constant than that. Same thing with the locker in the front axle, wouldn't I feel that more than just while driving? I'm not questioning you, just trying to understand. Thanks.
 
Lift both front wheels off the ground. Lock the hub one at a time, spin the tire. You should be able to see the axle u-joint turn. Does it? Unlock the hub. It should not turn now. If either still turn-You have found a problem......
LG
 
Lift both front wheels off the ground. Lock the hub one at a time, spin the tire. You should be able to see the axle u-joint turn. Does it? Unlock the hub. It should not turn now. If either still turn-You have found a problem......
LG

Nope, no movement at all...
 
Check the ball joints as well. Binding sounds like a steering problem to me, but you may have more than one thing contributing to your issue.
 
Is this with hubs 'locked' or 'unlocked'?
LG

Both u-joints turned and didn't properly.

UPDATE: Drove it to work and back today, 20 miles of both highway and city, no issues at all, like it never happened. I've seen really bad u-joints before, and these are not them. I would also expect that if the issue was the steering box itself then it would be more consistent and not dependent on speed and turn direction.

Could it have been something with one of the locking hubs, like just catching/dragging enough to cause issues? I had the one off to set the wheel bearing, but didn't touch the other until Saturday when I locked it and the problem vanished. Thinking I will pull the other hub off this weekend if time allows.

For giggles, can anyone point me to a good resource for checking ball joints? I've given them a good visual and everything looks square and even. With the wheels off the ground, get zero movement out of them, and no sound (far as I can tell, it is a jeep) when driving over dips and bumps.
 
I just grab the top and bottom of the wheel while its off the ground and push/pull on it checking for movement, but I'm sure there's a more sophisticated way to check ball joints ;)
 
Thanks for the reply Tarry99. I thought that locking the hubs and having the problem go away would have ruled out the steering gear, that combined with it only happening while driving. I would have expected an issue with the gear to be more constant than that. Same thing with the locker in the front axle, wouldn't I feel that more than just while driving? I'm not questioning you, just trying to understand. Thanks.

No easy answer or magic pill.........just have to work through trouble shooting all the parts..........

The Saginaw gear box has a large piston like valve up front that floats fore & aft , when a signal comes down from the steering wheel that commands a turn to either L/R , it moves the port in the piston into the right position to turn the wheels in the given direction. This is also where the shape of the port gives some steering gears what they call Variable ratio steering.

That gear box also has enough power with all things being equal to bend many parts that get in the way of it's movement.

You say......"feel the resistance, and see the wheel kind of jump as applying more pressure to the wheel to the right, but after the first time it would not happen again until I drove it around a bit. Sitting in the garage on the ground I could not feel or see anything."

Your statement above seems to me to indicate that the piston is either worn out......or the seals are history or there is perhaps contamination in the fluid that doesn't allow the piston to move freely? All common problems with old parts...........and obviously just an educated guess.

Again there could be many things at issue........but all your problems seem to start at the steering gear.
 
You may well want to drain and replace the PS fluid.
How was the fluid level when you checked it? What color is it?
LG
 
You may well want to drain and replace the PS fluid.
How was the fluid level when you checked it? What color is it?
LG
Fluid was drained and flushed when I did the pump at the beginning of this fun. Old fluid didn't look too bad, but I had added quite a bit over the winter due to the leak so hard to know.

My plans now are to continue to drive it and see if it comes back. Also thinking about pulling the lock off the right hub to take a peak. Otherwise I need to get to the other items on the list since winter is coming...

Thanks all for the input, I will be sure to update if I ever find anything.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
Otherwise I need to get to the other items on the list since winter is coming...

Thanks all for the input,

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Wow we haven't even gotten to the serious part of the hurricane season yet and still have about 4 months of summer here. Another 5 or 6 months before I think about even getting out my soft top. :)
 
Wow we haven't even gotten to the serious part of the hurricane season yet and still have about 4 months of summer here. Another 5 or 6 months before I think about even getting out my soft top. :)
[emoji39] don't get me wrong, it's nearly 100 here recent, but we have had snow in October pretty often

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
Any updates? :confused:
LG
 
Any updates? :confused:
LG
No, it's been good ever since.

Only issue now is that I'm not getting power to my blower of temp gauge, but probably just a loose connection since I had the column out. On my list to dig into soon.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
I would look into that ASAP.
Did you disconnect the battery when you pulled the steering colume?
Check the fuse panel first-
LG
 

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