Steering shaft gone bad

[Hedgehog]

I've failed my CJ in the past. This is the first time my CJ failed me, no it wasn't a bad failure. Week or so ago I noticed that there was a catch in the steering. The catch turned into a bind, so I popped the hood and had a friend turn the steering wheel while I watched. Well, with the power steering off the small binding catch turned into something awful. It is obvious that the bottom joint, that bell looking thing, has failed. Ever since I rebuilt the joint a few years ago my faith in the joint hasn't been the best.

To get rid of the joint I ordered a BORGESON Heavy Duty Replacement Steering Shaft. It isn't a cheap part, I hope this was a good decision. Your thoughts?

 

[gr8dain]

I need to replace my steering shaft as well (as part of my frame swap project) and looked into the Borgeson as well. I have seen a couple on others' rigs and they swear by them.

 

[Torxhead]

I don't favor those shafts all that much as they are really loaded with set screws on each end. I did replace them with harded stainless set screws and locktite, and hope they don't come loose. They u-joints on them are pretty good though. with some thought you might be able to improve on how thet fit on each end. The paint isn't the greatest either, mine is rusting up. Good Luck!

 

[gr8dain]

I have heard that you need to paint them before installing.

 

[Hedgehog]

Painting, good advice that I probably would have missed.

 

[tarry99]

I don't favor those shafts all that much as they are really loaded with set screws on each end. I did replace them with harded stainless set screws and locktite, and hope they don't come loose. They u-joints on them are pretty good though. with some thought you might be able to improve on how thet fit on each end. The paint isn't the greatest either, mine is rusting up. Good Luck!

Hey Torx.........that system with set screws has been time tested.........I even questioned there engineers about that and they responded by telling me how the aftermarket steering industry got together and submitted all of there scientific test data on that attachment subject prior to getting Insurance and approval from the industry to manufacture those parts...............even the old single bolt or pin through the shaft and joint turned out to be weaker overall.


On your's I noticed you say you changed over to stainless set screws? Is that on a standard steel joint?

Stainless screws threaded into dissimilar metals have a distinct problem with galling the threads brought on by either galvanic corrosion , cold welding or even the fact that due to the thread making process between the two metals the cutting angles do not match and allow the two to lock up together when torque is applied........
To the point the only way off is with a High Speed cut-off wheel.......Anti-sieze is about the only lubricant I've seen that works. But really it's best to stay with similar metals.

Here is an article on that subject:

Stainless Steel Galling / Locking Up / Freezing Up

 

[CJim7]

This appears to be an epidemic. I too need to replace my steering shaft....the bottom end needs a rebuild but it doesn't look like a lot of fun. I've been thinking about the Borgeson shaft.....but then my OEM one lasted 35 years. I'll probably just end up going with another stock shaft.

 

[Torxhead]

That was an interesting read Tarry, along with the link at the bottom of the page. I have also read some similiar articles, as I have been currently tinkering with mixing dissimilar metals, I will keep that in mind. I was mostly interested in where the set screw makes contact with the mating shafts and it loosening up due to the tiny contact surface of the screw tip over time. I have also drilled small pockets for the screws to rest in and it has been holding for now anyway.

 

[Hedgehog]

Cjim7 - I actually don't doubt the integrity of the old bell type system, what bothers me is the quality of the rubber boot. When the power steering unit was replaced I also rebuilt the shaft joint. There are only a few pats but they are fiddly in their arrangement. Also the system requires a lot of grease in the "Bell". It didn't take long at all for the boot to crack open. Way down where the dirt flies is not a good place for an open grease filled container. Dirt filled grease can do little other than shorten the life of the part. To me it only makes sense to have a fairly conventional U-joint down in the mud and dirt.

I haven't seen the part yet, other than the available pictures you find on line, I simply can't believe that they would sell an unstable part for such a critical driving area of any vehicle.

 

[CJim7]

Cjim7 - I actually don't doubt the integrity of the old bell type system, what bothers me is the quality of the rubber boot. When the power steering unit was replaced I also rebuilt the shaft joint. There are only a few pats but they are fiddly in their arrangement. Also the system requires a lot of grease in the "Bell". It didn't take long at all for the boot to crack open. Way down where the dirt flies is not a good place for an open grease filled container. Dirt filled grease can do little other than shorten the life of the part. To me it only makes sense to have a fairly conventional U-joint down in the mud and dirt.

I haven't seen the part yet, other than the available pictures you find on line, I simply can't believe that they would sell an unstable part for such a critical driving area of any vehicle.

That's exactly what failed on mine....the rubber boot. Im not really sure what kind of shape the inner components are in as it is just a big greasy mess at the moment. Maybe I will revisit the idea of a Borgeson shaft.

 

[Hedgehog]

When mine was still working I was going to make one from an inner tube some glue and clamps. It wouldn't have been pretty, but hidden down there out of sight pretty isn't important.

 

[tarry99]

I'm yet to see one of the Borgeson or Flaming River Double D shaft systems using there good U-joints ever fail..........

Having said that anything can be broken under extreme duty and likewise any bolt or fixture that is not safety wired can and will probably come loose during that same extreme cycling.

Any critical part on a Jeep should never be considered to be full proof.......

Things wear , things come loose..........just part of the deal.

It's Called PM crawl under it with your tools and check all the bolts.

 

[Hedgehog]

Never fail, with the other warning advice considered, is a good thing. It seems that among some folks the set screw arrangement on these U-joints is an issue that is difficult if not impossible to over come. For others the set screw system has proven itself to be very reliable. I seen similar threads before, with similar comments, but when asked if anyone has actually seen the system fail there is nothing but silence. That about says it all for me. At least I'm hoping for positive results.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

After you tighten the setscrews(blue#242 loctite is your friend here)and jam-nut. Put a dab of white paint on the screw/jam-nut to the U-joint so that you will know if the setscrews start moving.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Thanks Lumpy, I'm a loctite kinda guy, I'm also going to get some safety wire nuts and lock 'er down that way.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Post up some pictures when your done.
How's about a 'how-to' thread on the install........
Did you order the shaft with the vibration dampener on it?
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

No I didn't, evidently that is available starting in '76. This seems like a fairly straight forward little add on or switcheroo job to me. When I get the thing I'll look at it to see if I can do something interesting. I'm wanting to get a close up look at these troublesome set screws. Looking at some up close photographs they don't look nearly as small and inconsequential at I had originally thought they were.

Since it is an all steel part I can't help but wonder if it would be good to weld the U-joint to the shaft. It would make the U-joint permanently attached to the shaft. I suppose a possible maintenance issue. Do these things wear out?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Can you lube the joints yourownself ??
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Don't have it until Monday. There isn't anything written about grease fittings and I don't see any. Maybe someone that has one installed can tell us. From what I can see it looks like a sealed joint. I suppose that compared to a U-joint on a driveshaft a steering U-joint doesn't get much action and might last darned near for ever.

 

[Torxhead]

Just looked at mine Hedge, no lube jerks and all set screws with lock nuts still holding.