Trac-lok vs. newer offerings

[Lumpy Grits]

Let me add to TR's facts.
When you weld the housing.
Do that with the axles/seals of the jeep and the carrier removed from the housing. I use a wirefeed welder and flux-core wire. I lay 1" of weld and then skip 1". You want the paint where you are welding removed and use brake cleaner to flush where the housing and tubes meet.
You MUST heat the cast-iron housing with a 'rose-bud' to about 300* before welding. This reduces the tendency of the iron to crack after the welding is done.
BTW-There is a reason I put a Currie, Ford 9" in the back of my Jeep-I have seen to many issues with the '20' rear to ever trust one.
LG

 

[Flex BT]

Well crud, if that's the case, unwelded it will stay since it's already at the shop.

An 8.8 or something would be great for some day. I've read the 20 is supposedly more stout than a 44 once it has one piece axles. Does that refer more to the bigger R+P and the tube slippage is still an issue?

 

[Torxhead]

I like TRs suggestion to add thicker wall tubes, although you could save that for if you bend the existing ones. Meanwhile a little weld work on the tubes will help prevent a tube turning, like LG suggested, I have seen them turn. If you do swap out a diff make sure it is the same width, it would be a pain to get stuck between some rocks or trees. I have noticed that the trails have been made wider since the newer Jeeps have come out though.

 

[007]

I think A LOT of what you do to your driveline should depend on what you do with the Jeep. If you're taking it to work on Friday's or taking your kids to get ice cream, then leave well enough alone. If your putting coils on with 37's and climbing canyon walls then that's a different discussion; and obviously there's plenty of variation in between.

I have an offset AMC20 in my Jeep since I have the QuadraTrac and I've had my tubes welded and plan on trussing at least the wide side. In my situation, my tubes were welded as they sit. That is NOT to say that the advice you received by TR and LG isn't fantastic, but you can safely tack a few beads around the tubes later on if you wish. Is it as good a weld solution as they proposed? No. Is it somewhat better than none? Yes.

Obviously the one-piece axles are a great add-on as is a locker (again depending on what you need to accomplish). I need to get both done this winter, but I'm going with lunchboxes on both ends for me personally.

Nonetheless - best of luck to you in your endeavors - keep us posted!

 

[TeamRush]

007 and LG are correct...
There are three things to consider when doing somehting like this,
1. Application.
2. Application.
3. APPLICATION!

I know guys that do mild trail riding, occasionally getting into something they shouldn't that have had ZERO problems with M-20.

I know other guys that did nothing but street driving that broke the 2 piece axles with a 4 cylinder under the hood...

-----------

The bottom line is,
$$$$$$$$$ APPLICATION $$$$$$$$$

Application Vs. $$$$$$

If you KNOW you are going to pound that diff,
Then DO NOT dump money into an AMC20 .

One piece axles,
Welding the housing,
Adding a truss,
Diff Carrier,

This stuff adds up QUICK!

----

Off set diffs are a PAIN, since there isn't anything you can bolt directly in that isn't too wide
(J-20 Truck With M-20 rear diff)

The Ford 9" is probably the EASIEST/Cheapest to customize since it's stupid simple to narrow for your application,
9" housings grow on trees, Ford used them on EVERYTHING for about 30 years,
They are TOUGH, there is a reason drag racers and circle track, virtually everyone uses them...

Since the gear set flops out in the floor with the center section,
You can do anything you want to with the housing...
There are TONS of hot rod shops and talented amateurs, Differential shops that have welding jigs to narrow a 9" for dirt cheap...
(I have a cutting/welding jig just to entertain myself)
A grinder, mig welder and alignment jig and you are off to the races...

Axles cost around $AMC 150 a set to get narrowed, including shipping,
And you can have any spline count cut back into them when you get them narrowed.

High Pinion center sections are out there, they just aren't cheap,
But once you save $1,000 on the diff it's self, your wallet isn't completely drained...

And remember,
A set of Lincoln rear disc brakes from the salvage yard will bolt right onto about any 9"...
Where else can you get a full rear disc brake set up, INCLUDING E-Brake, for $250...?

Centered rear diffs are even cheaper when you use a 9"...
No odd length tube/axle cost!

--------------

Since you went M-20 already, the carrier/gears are already paid for and installed,
Consider a truss and one piece axles as 'Upgrades'.
The truss, when connected to the center section with a plate or welding, will keep the axle tubes from breaking loose from the center section,
And we all know what one piece axles stop from happening...

 

[the chief]

I've got a Detroit locker in the rear and install an Auburn ECTED in the front. Love it, high biased LSD full time and full lock with the push of a button. So far, no problems and never really need to go into full lock. The LSD works great in the snow. You might consider this unit for your rear.

 

[Flex BT]

I've already got the axle in the shop with the Detroit TruTrac being installed. New ETA for completion is Saturday. I'm really excited to see how much different it's going to drive.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

You'll never feel it on the street.
You'll see the difference off-road.
LG

 

[Flex BT]

Going from 2.73s to 4.10s, too - the bigger part of the operation.

 

[Bent]

Yeah after some research I'm liking the TruTrac option although it's another hundred bucks. Seems like it would be worth it with the clutchless design + strength. I've got 1 pieces - don't know if they're mosers or not they came with the Jeep.

Edit: Only thing I'm a little worried about is how much it's going to bother me during routine driving, engaging when you don't want them to, etc.

You will need one piece axles with the right bearing orientation to run a trutrac, or any other differential that doesn't use a thrust block. Some one piece axles use a bearing setup that places the bearing cup outboard like the OEM two piece design. This is a problem if you don't have a thrust block because you have no positive stop to keep the bearing from pulling out of the cup and removing the preload. If you run a LS or locker without a thrust block, you need the one piece shafts that use the Timken Set 9 bearings. The set 9 reverses the bearing and cup orientation so that any inward force on the axle pushes the bearing into the cup.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Going from 2.73s to 4.10s, too - the bigger part of the operation.

You really need to go with Moser 1 pieces axles!
Go to 4:56 or 4:88(what I run).
You'll really like those gears with 33's.
It also takes allot of torque load off the tranny--
LG

 

[Flex BT]

Yes, the mosers are being installed by the guy along with the TrueTrac / 4.10s. I did say that earlier but I do know it's hard to keep track of what's going on in all these threads.

The guy doing the install is C.D. Gooyer (C.D. Sales and Repair, Petersburg, VA). When I started asking around I heard nothing but good things, really surprising I had such a hard time finding someone to do it. Talking to him, he really seems like he knows what he's doing and running an honest shop and his price for labor was way less than I expected (it's the parts cost that really killed me). But that's to be expected for a new LSD, gears, axles, install kit / bearings etc. He called today and said it should be ready for pickup tomorrow so I should hopefully be reporting back before too long here.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

It's NOT 'black-magic' to do. DO need some special tooling--
I've been set'n up R&P's for over 35+ years. It's doez take time, and it 'hands-on' time is the best teacher.
Glad you found a good place. That's hard to do these dayz.
LG

 

[Flex BT]

Yeah this is the first work I shopped out on my jeep. I read enough horror stories and bold faced warnings to determine it wouldn't be a good project for me if I didn't have someone who had done it before to show me the ropes.

 

[Flex BT]

***after action report***

I got the axle back, finally had a chance to install it, bleed the brakes and fix a bunch of peripherally involved systems. Remember kids, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! More on that later...

As far as the change to 4.10s, it's a whole lot of gear. In retrospect, having this jeep for mostly road use I think I might have been better served with 3.73s. It's great being able to utilize the 5th gear in the T-5 (albeit still under 50MPH while the gears break in) but I feel like my only tranny upgrade option now would be to do an AX-15 as any tranny that ends in 1:1 will limit my highway driving (although it's possible I just baby the engine and I should be fine driving at higher RPMs than I do). I'll be able to feel this out a little bit better after I get a few hundred miles on the gears and are able to open it up. After just a little bit of driving the jeep doesn't behave any differently with the TrueTrac installed than it did when it had the open diff. Now I just hope I get some snow this season to be able to play around in even if it's only in RWD with the TT - front axle regearing is on the shelf until the finance box gets refilled.

The issue I was having with shaking when going into gear / clutch let down:

Quick rundown - had this problem since I had the jeep. Put in a new clutch, new tranny, new pilot bushing, machine turned flywheel, new U joints, etc. Has the problem with both front only and rear only. The fact that the gearing is was really high was brought up as a potential cause. The 4.10s greatly reduced the amount of shake when going into gear but you can tell it still exists. Now I'm a little bit at a loss and not entirely sure what to do next. The new clutch I installed came with the T-5 when I got it and was almost identical to the one that was in there. I'm wondering if the cause is either a problem with the Transfer Case , both trannys, or maybe the style of clutch / plate just not enough for pushing big tires. It's frustrating. Maybe something in the clutch linkage?

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

When I unmounted the axle I discovered one of the almost new rear brake shoes had a large portion of the brake pad come detatched, rolling around inside the drum. I replaced it and decided I would bleed the brakes. Always one for being thorough, I decided to start with the fronts even though it might not have been necessary as the front axle wasn't touched. The bleeder valve on the front left was completely rounded. A vice grip was no help so to NAPA I went for a new caliper and new bleeder valves all around. I also got a screw backout kit to give removal of the old bleeder one last shot. After 30 minutes of screwing around the backout bit snapped in half. Crud. Replaced the caliper, got to bleeding the front brakes. Was going great then suddenly the pedal was mush. Looked back and there's brake fluid all over the driveway. Crud. Rear right cylinder was busted. Back to NAPA for a replacement. After that getting the system bled was jut a tremendous pain in the ***, worse than it's ever been before for some reason. Must have gone around the jeep 5 times before I got it set. At least I am FINALLY back on the road. Thanks everybody for your help and guidance.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

After you drive it some-You'll like the 4:10's.
In about 500 miles-Bleed the brakes again, make sure you only use DOT 3 fluid as that is what spec'd for the system.
Keep your road rpm's in the 2000-2500 range, and you'll have a happy engine.
LG