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Vacuum Advance Adjustment Distributor

Vacuum Advance Adjustment Distributor
There is a reason a lot of guys that have done this for years won't go near an open information forum...
You have to deal with all the guys that pump myth and second hand stories and argue CONSTANTLY about everything...

1. Initial.
INITIAL IS JUST THAT, Just to get you started.

Cold, Poor Fuel, Wet & everything damp, condensation in the cylinders,
It has to get that engine RUNNING with no Centrifugal or Vacuum,
No atomizaion of fuel in the intake/combustion chamber, lots of 'Choke' fuel and accelerator pump fuel just laying in the intake/runners waiting to soak that spark plug down,
Frost or moisture in the intake/chambers,

Your battery is putting out about 1/4 the current it normally does,
And the engine is 400% harder to crank due to cold, thick oil, ect.
The starter is turning MUCH slower, so you aren't even getting crank speed working on your side...

Or the other extreme,
Engine way too hot, just lugged up out of a ditch, tried to pull someone out, stalled the engine...
WAY too hot to shut that engine down when it died, the valve are expanded and may or may not be sealing,
The pistons are fully expanded, the rings have oil so the cylinder compression will never be higher,
The engine got stalled, so there is raw fuel settling out in the intake,

And when you hit that key, you want that engine to take right off and purr like a kitten...

There isn't much you can do about the temperature or atomization of the fuel in the intake tract.
There isn't much you can do about the cylinder temperature, or if it's cold and leaking like a sieve,
Or if it's hot and sealing up like a hydraulic cylinder...

------------------

WHAT YOU CAN DO...
You can set that 'Initial' to a reasonable level what will work *Adequately* under most conditions you will encounter.

Initial is all you have.

If you are smarter than the 'Average Bear', you will do EVERYTHING you can to make sure you get a good, hot spark in that chamber.
A good, hot spark will give you a MUCH better chance to get the cylinders firing during 'Initial Cranking'...

Initial and hot spark are TWO things going in your favor.

If you have reasonable Initial, then the starter can turn the engine at it's best possible speed, and there are THREE things that are moving in your favor...

See where I'm going with this?...

There is advance for standing start/RPM based advance.
Take advantage of them at the APPROPRIATE TIME,

There is advance for 'Economy' based on engine load, take advantage of that at the APPROPRIATE TIME.

Don't just dump all the ignition advance on the 'Initial' and think you aren't effecting anything else.
 
I just went and changed my initial down from 12 to 8. It seemed like it wasn't running quite as smoothly but I'm hoping it will start better (I'll have to wait for it to get cold again to see).
 
I just went and changed my initial down from 12 to 8. It seemed like it wasn't running quite as smoothly but I'm hoping it will start better (I'll have to wait for it to get cold again to see).

It might not be 'Running' as well...
But how did it start?
How will it start in the morning after sitting all night?

There isn't much information there...
'Smoothly' is a relative and subjective term.

Did the idle drop when you took the timing out?
Did you unhook, then connect the vacuum canister?
Did your idle speed come back when the vacuum can was hooked back up?
 
I did remove the vacuum line from the differential before adjusting the timing, and the idle dropped a little when I pulled/plugged it. The motor sounded like it was running less smoothly (which may have just been another small idle drop but seemed like the sound of the motor just became slightly less uniform) when I turned the dizzy to the 8 degree mark. After reconnecting the vacuum line to the distributor the idle came back up a bit.
 
Hard starting problems can be caused by fuel evaporating from the float bowl on a warm engine and it can take a bit of cranking to fill it up again.
 
I've definitely got that issue as well, but that's separate. I have a fuel pressure gauge right before the carb so I've started it and been able to see that fuel is pumping to the carb but it still would take a good amount of cranking to start.
 
I did remove the vacuum line from the differential before adjusting the timing, and the idle dropped a little when I pulled/plugged it. The motor sounded like it was running less smoothly (which may have just been another small idle drop but seemed like the sound of the motor just became slightly less uniform) when I turned the dizzy to the 8 degree mark. After reconnecting the vacuum line to the distributor the idle came back up a bit.

SLOWER IDLE SPEED...
You WILL HEAR any anomalies more dramatically since there is more TIME between firing cycles.

The slower the idle speed, the more TIME between cylinder firings, and you can actually HEAR if things are going well or not.

The higher the idle speed, the less time your ear has to differentiate between sounds, so they tend to run together and get muddled or lost.

When you add a lot of vacuum advance (hooking up the vacuum line) the idle will INCREASE, and the timing will jump up at idle.
This will take a BUNCH of the distinguishable sound out of your engine and it's workings.

Just keep in mind that an OCCASIONAL MISFIRE IS UNAVOIDABLE, but by slowing down the RPM, you can HEAR that misfire more easily.
Jacking up idle speed is just COVERING the occasional misfire or firing that doesn't' go exactly right...
It's still happening, you just can't distinguish it, and the next cylinder firing sooner covers it up.

Slower RPM also is more sensitive to fuel/air changes.
One thing I usually tell people when they tune a carb is to put the AIR CLEANER ON!
You would be surprised how much difference there is in fuel mix on these little engines with just the restriction of the air cleaner in the intake tract.

--------------

What most people don't realize is this engine WAS NOT designed to run at 600 RPM,
It's STRUGGLING to stay running at 600 RPM.

It was designed to run at about 2,500 RPM to 2,800 RPM.
The intake, heads, valves, combustion chambers, exhaust, camshaft, ect. were all designed to run at that 'Optimum' RPM, not at 'Idle' speed.

There have been GREAT advances in getting engines to run better at 'Idle' and still do what they were intended for, pulling at 'Cruise' speed,

But we simply don't have sequential port fuel injection, Variable camshaft timing, infinitely adjustable fuel/ignition timing, Multi-Valve heads, ect.

We work with what we have...
SO!
If it starts, runs well, has the occasional 'Hick Up' at idle, then we live with it!
 
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to help walk me through this stuff, I really appreciate it and will check out some of the other timing diags you've posted in the future.
 

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