Voltage Spike?

[JSnow]

I went 130A single wire from DB Electrical.

which model? nothing listed under jeep... saw Rush's post about the cs130D and searched looks like they have a 160 amp for AMC 150 $ not too shabby, but everything is 6 rib.

if I can find a single groove does it really bolt right up?

 

[rushpowersystems]

Pulleys are interchangeable I can put any pulley on that you need and if there is not a pulley available I can custom build one. If you look at the photos on the post, you will see it is the actual alternator that is on my 80 CJ5 , bolt right into the factory location.

I really try to talk people out of using a one wire alternator. The fact is I can use any alternator I want, the only thing I will use a one wire alternator on is a vehicle that is driven off the trailer at the car show. Now every time I say this I get someone who can give an example of a one wire alternator that works great. If you take all other reasons out of the mix there is still the fact that most off road spots are not in the middle of a big city, and I have never seen a shop in a small town that has the parts or can deal with a one wire failure. Lets say I up grade to a CS130D and I jump start someones engine and I fry my CS130D, I can go to any auto parts store and get an alternator that will get me home, and / or let me finish my fun. The fact is one wire alternators just don’t work as well as a wired regulator. Plus all you need is an adapter plug that goes from the factory 2 wire plug to the CS 4 pin and you are up and running.

If you have more questions or would like more info on the two alternators feel free to send me a note or give me a call. darren@rushps.com 801-557-7684

 

[JSnow]

So I dropped my alt off at my buddy's shop he was going to reduild it for me, but when he cracked it open he couldn't believe it was still working. it was filled with rust and the bearings were shot. he got me a new 130a replacement for 100$

hooked it up and ran new 10ga wire...went to fire it, nothin' battery dead? $#%&*.
break out the jumper cables and get her lit up, voltage gauge pegged. dammit!
time to get out the volt meter.
reading at the back of the alt...17V, starter solenoid...17V, battery clamps...17V. thats when I stumble on the problem, not paying attention to where I was touching my probes thinking its on the clamp the meter reads 9V look up and I'm right on the terminal.
how in the hell can the battery only read 9V when 17V is being pumped into it?
I'll tell ya...and yeah i'm an idiot and should've checked it first...
positive terminal had formed it's own little shell of corrosion around it. 5 minutes and a wirebrush later I'm back in business. 14V all around.

On the plus side I got a higher power alternator with the blessing from the wifey

 

[rushpowersystems]

Good to hear, however if I understand correctly you jump started the engine and used the alternator to charge the dead battery. Huge no, no, modern regulators cant handle that and you may have shortened the life of the alternator, keep an eye on you volt gauge, if you are dropping into the 13-13.5 range at idle with a load, such as head lights and heater, then you have problems coming your way.

Rule of thumb alternators are designed to maintain batteries, not charge them.

 

[IOPort51]

Good to hear, however if I understand correctly you jump started the engine and used the alternator to charge the dead battery. Huge no, no, modern regulators cant handle that and you may have shortened the life of the alternator, keep an eye on you volt gauge, if you are dropping into the 13-13.5 range at idle with a load, such as head lights and heater, then you have problems coming your way.

Rule of thumb alternators are designed to maintain batteries, not charge them.

Hey Rush;
Any words of wisdom on deep cycle batteries and high amp drain appliances like winches and day lighters and maybe some thoughts on charging relays??

This could almost be another thread and there may already be AMC 150 threads on this, I admit I have not looked. But the rule of thumb you present raises some interesting questions about the conventional wisdom as I have thought I understood it.

 

[rushpowersystems]

Wow I could do volumes on that, in fact I think I have on my blog, or at least I have it on my to do list.

I think deep cycle batteries are not a good choice for a single battery system and I would never mate one to a non-gear reduction starter. DS batteries are great as a second battery for use in playing the stereo all day, of course I am speaking in generalities here, I know the Yellow top and to some degree the Blue top blurs the lines. However I just don’t trust them to release the amps need in using a winch and / or starters. A DS is not good for high amp drain but it is good for low to mid amp drain over a long period of amp hours.

I never use or recommend charging relays, I use battery isolators or 2,3,4,5, and so alternators, find out the load and add as many alternators needed to feed the load. In saying that I should probably point out that I don’t really like isolators. Here is the problem, an isolator will “eat” up to 1 volt. If I have 14 volts at the alternator and the center post on the isolator, you may only have 13 volts at the batteries. Now I run external adjustable regulators so I can just crank the voltage up until the batteries have what they need.

But this is a lot better than a relay or solenoid, the problem is this, when you have one battery that is nearly dead and one that is fully charged, when you flip the switch to charge the dead battery. For a split second both batteries are connected and the charged battery can dump power into the dead one and that can cause the dead one to explode or catch fire.

As long as we are talking about winches, run your system at 16.5 volts (most batteries are stable to 17 volts) and your winch will last twice as long and winch twice as fast, this is also why you should upgrade to a gear reduction starter. The reason for this is as the voltage goes up the amperage requirements goes down. There is a calculator for testing this on my web site.

Rush Power Systems -Free shipping on high amp alternators and other automotive electrical products

 

[IOPort51]

As long as we are talking about winches, run your system at 16.5 volts (most batteries are stable to 17 volts) and your winch will last twice as long and winch twice as fast, this is also why you should upgrade to a gear reduction starter. The reason for this is as the voltage goes up the amperage requirements goes down. There is a calculator for testing this on my web site.


There is a lot of information in this post that I shall have to take time to ponder. This one section seems to be saying the alternator should be powerful enough to power the winch by itself at idle? this would require an adjustment of the voltage regulator? or perhaps a replacement of the voltage regulator?

I am unfamiliar with gear reduction starters and isolators so I will study those a bit before asking foolish questions about them.

​

 

[JSnow]

Good to hear, however if I understand correctly you jump started the engine and used the alternator to charge the dead battery.

Well, I left some out for the sake of reading. after I cleaned the terminal off, I charged it, then hooked it up. I thought I had charged it the first go round, but oviously not since my battery wasnt even essentially hooked up with the layer of corrosion that had formed.... which brings me to my next point I need a new battery charger, one of them fancy new ones would've told me it wasnt charging anything.

Thanks for your help and the advice

 

[rushpowersystems]

IO:
I have been working on a post for my blog that answers many of your questions, you can check it out at Top ten questions about high output. (High amp) alternators. | The National Voltage Star

not covered is gear reduction starters, but I will post it in a new post.

JSnow:
Good deal knowledge is power!

 

[IOPort51]

IO:
I have been working on a post for my blog that answers many of your questions, you can check it out at Top ten questions about high output. (High amp) alternators. | The National Voltage Star

not covered is gear reduction starters, but I will post it in a new post.

JSnow:
Good deal knowledge is power!

I shall check this out as soon as I get home, thanks.

 

[IOPort51]

I am reviewing the information on high output alternators you discussed a month or so ago and have a couple of questions.
For my 77 CJ5 with a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l l6 will the cs130d be much of an install problem? If I have the voltage set up to 16V or so for improved winch operation will it cause problems for radio, lights, fans etc.? I understand the 130d is an externally excited regulator or three wires, is this correct?
I am thinking along the lines of a 100 amp which I think should be suitable for a winch, electric fan, a couple of day lighters and a radio that the people in the next car won't be annoyed by.
I will need to run a single row V belt pulley, will this be a problem at low RPM with this large an alternator? As I understand it is necessary to use a pulley that is a bit larger if a single pulley is used, which decreases the speed of the alternator.
I hope I have not been redundant in some of these questions; they are just a few things I am a bit confused about.

 

[rushpowersystems]

The stock alternator is a 10 SI, it will have a external fan on the front and a 2 wire plug ( - - )on the side of the alternator at the rear. There is a special 130D which will bolt right in, however the only way to get one is through a custom builder like myself, this is because GM has discontinued them. Check the link for more info.

The factory set point on a 130D is 14.2 volts so again you will need a custom built unit to get the 16 volt, the same is true with the CS130 and the CS144. The CS144 will fit in the stock location however you may need to bend the top bracket up a bit as it is larger than the 10SI but then you can get them at any parts store, just tell them to look up GM part number 1101183. I am not a fan of parts house rebuilds but it is much better than a junk yard part.

16 volts will have no effect on anything factory or aftermarket, other than the fact that the part will run better, cooler, and last longer, higher voltage reduces amps and that reduces heat, and that makes the part last longer. However the battery will boil above about 17.5 volts depending on the battery. All CS units are externally excited as are the stock SI units, so yes it’s a 3 wire.

The thing about amps is, more is better, the alternator will not force the power into the system but you will have it when you need it. If I were to add your numbers I would say it would brake down like this:

vehicle needs about 50
fans around 20 each total of 40
radio 10 unless you are using an external amp
perhaps 20 in the lighting
and winch up to 300 depending on your set up and its age.

So lets take the winch out since you probably will not use it daily, we are looking at around 140 amps. You are probably not going to use everything at once so a hot rated AMC 150 amp would probably be fine. On our web site we have a calculator to test your numbers but it breaks down like this:

lets say 200 amps for the winch and AMC 150 for the rest fo the system for a total of 350 amps or 5075 watts at 14.5 volts. If we plug the same wattage at 16 volts we see that the system will only need 317 amps. This can be done for short burst with a singe alternator, in other words you can power the winch from the alternator without taping into the battery reserve. But having said this an alternator that can produce 60 amps at an idle and a total of 100 amps is much better than a unit that can only do 60 amps at 4000 rpm like the stock unit.

The highest I would go with a v belt pulley is 200 amps hot, to get usable power for anything over 200 amps we need to be in the 1.5 “ to 1.75" pulley and a v belt will not grip a pulley that is smaller than 1.9"

happy to answer any question that I know anything about.

 

[IOPort51]

So an AD-12SI-AMC 150 -3 would be a good choice?:dunno:

 

[rushpowersystems]

Yes it is a good choice, only draw back is you are dealing with stock unit. So you are only going to see about 45-50 amps at idle. Compare this to a AD-144-150-3, you will see 90-100 amps at an idle, both units are using the v-pulley.

But keep in mind you are going to need to upgrade the wiring from the alternator to the battery and you will need an adaptor plug for the install. We can do this as a kit for the following:
alternator $279.95
Wire upgrade kit $99.95
Adaptor plug $29.95
Total of $409.85
Less club discount of 20% for a your cost of $327.88

now if you go with a AD-12SI-AMC 150 -3 you are going to need the wire upgrade kit so your total with the 20% discount is $199.96 alternator and wiring, you would not need the adaptor plug.

The wiring kit is 5 feet of 8 gauge cable, fuse holder, and fuse. You may be able to cut a deal with a stereo shop and pick up some rem pieces of cable, just make sure it is at least 8 gauge.

BTW, the GM 1101183 that a mentioned is a factory rated 120 amp, everything I build is 100% new and extra heavy duty, I am the only custom builder that has a lifetime warranty, I need to use the best parts to pull the warranty off. Having said that I don’t begrudge anyone that wants to save a buck and Jeep alternators are easy to change, so you may want to check a parts house pricing on that unit, just be sure to up grade the wiring to the battery.

Now the complete bolt in CS130D unit is $349.95 (list price )for the AMC 150 amp, it is a real pain in the <-BAD WORD-> to build and parts are more expensive, but it is much more heavy duty. The adjustable external regulator can be added for $149.95 however it is only compatible with the CS144 and CS130D units.

Feel free to let me know if I have raised more questions than I have answered.

 

[rushpowersystems]

One other thing, if you go with the CS144 from a parts house it will have a 6 groove pulley, you will need an air impact to swap the pulleys, just be sure your spacing on the back of the two pulleys are the same or you will bend the CS144 fan.