Which d44?

[gliryan]

I don't have the pic ready of the flange, but I was wondering if it was possible to tell if I had a 19 or 30 spline Dana 44 without pulling the axles? I made a quick attempt to pull the axle today but couldn't get the grease cap off and I realized even if I did I didn't have a big enough socket to loosen it. So I snapped a pic in hopes of determining which I had.

If I have a 19 spline with two piece axles am I sol for modding it? I want 1 piece axles (if needed) and a locker when I'm done with it.

I'm not sure what year my frame is. The body is a 1970 dj on an early cj frame.

 

[BajaEdition]

need a bit more info
however sounds like you have 19 spline
however, the body is a DJ, is the drive train 4x4?
is the rear axle centered?
I took my 2 piece and converted to full floating which makes it stronger than flanged
is there a big nut with a cotter pin? 2 piece, or is it flat, flanged
easiest way to do this
contact Herm the Overdrive guy, he will walk you through it and tell you what you need to do to upgrade

 

[gliryan]

It is an offset axle. Yes the frame is a 4x4. I think its a 2 piece as it looked a lot like the front axle setup, had a grease cap. But I don't know for sure as I don't have any experience with this axle or a two piece axle setup. How does one go about getting this axle out? And how much is a full floating setup for this axle? big $$$$ I know.

EDIT: Pics, yes pressing in new wheel studs. The P.O. or me didn't realize the drivers side studs were reverse thread!

 

[SrBeaver]

You're gonna have either 10 or 19 spline. Most likely gonna be the 19. They never used 2 piece axles with 30 spline. They also stopped using the 10 spline some where in the early 60s.

 

[gliryan]

Yeah I know the 30 spline was never two piece, but I was wondering if anyone knew for sure which I had. I thought 19 spline, but was unsure and couldn't find any pictures to compare to.

 

[SrBeaver]

A great resource for anything Dana 44 /60 is Mr. N Dana Article He can also be contacted the the user name of Mr N on MN-Jeep. I used his knowledge base to figure out what I had in a P.O. built Dana 30

 

[BajaEdition]

yep that is a 2 piece
best thing you can do is convert it to a full floating axle and upgrade the spline count to modern while you do putting in a locker or Limited slip, depending on how you wheel.

herm

sells conversion kits here
Specialty Products

get the parts and go for it

your are really lucky, a full floating axle will be stronger than a flanged axle as the weight is taken off the axle and the only stress is from the driveline. built right it will outlast a newer flanged axle.

Herm can set you up to use your old carrier, I do not recomend this because of spline count, or et you set up for a modern carrier/locker(or Limited slip)

 

[gliryan]

Thats so much money to pour in on a narrow track axle, isn't it? Seems like I'd be better off at that point going to a waggy Dana 44 setup wouldn't it?

I will be trail driving this, it won't be a massive rock crawler and the biggest tire it will see is potentially a 35". I have 33's that I will be running at first.

 

[BajaEdition]

to change out that axle you will need to change out the Transfer Case , notice it is an offset pumpkin, where are you going find a offset pumpkin axle to match?
Also your limiting factor is not that Dana 44 , which is in the rear it is the D25/27 closed knuckle in the front.
I seriously do not know what your wheeling experience is, but it seems that someone has convinced you that you need huge tires, I have run 33s for the last 2 decades on most of my jeeps. MY TJ which was considered one of the better built jeeps around here only ran 33s, Lots of guys tried to tease me at camp, but would not follow me around on the trails.
My current CJ5 runs 31s, and even though I do not do extreme trails with her, she is a very capable Jeep. My CJ6 is sitting on 33s and the only reason I will soon have her on 45s is because I won a set in a raffle at an event.
The JK Rubicon I recently sold was sitting on 33s and I sold her because I bent the rear axle twice, I do not think you are aware of the fact that equipment is not a replacement for knowledge. A CJ is a very capable vehicle on 33s, I have done the Rubicon Trail twice in mine sitting on 31s.

 

[gliryan]

I've been wheeling for only the last year in an xj, otherwise I had a stock yota pickup in high school I played with a bunch among other offroad things. But, I took my 33's off of that and put them onto the postal. I wouldn't say my experience is that of someone that has been wheeling longer than I've been alive, just 24. I know the 33's are very capable, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like 35's. Just a thought of what I would like to go up to at some point.

I've got a Dana 20 tcase that I really want to use and twin stick it. I'm thinking I'm going to use the d18 and stock axles this coming year. Without a doubt I'll have a rear locker, I absolutely hate having two open diffs. Herm has been a little slow in answering questions, my last one was if I could get go up to 30 spline flanged axles if I get a 30 spline locker. Do you know the answer? I think I'd be totally fine with that and be really happy, until I wanted to use the Dana 20 . I've heard of people using an offset rear end with the Dana 20 's and being fine, I have no experience or knowledge on the subject though. But in terms of the offset for now I might just get flanged 19 splines and a locker of some sort and use them until something changes with my tcase.

 

[BajaEdition]

get a centered pumpkin Dana 44 and build it with modern spline count, put in the Dana 20 and you will be able to hold up to 35s unless you get crazy with the skinny pedal. The biggest problem I see is down time. A d18 can hold up to a V8 and so can a Dana 20 with ease, the Dana 44 has no real problems with 35s, the problem guys have with 35s and the Dana 44 is lack of common sense, they tend to slam down on the skinny instead of using gears to get out of an obstacle, and remember, there is noting wrong with waking for a winch and driveing home, there is something wrong with not asking and being towed home. Spending money because your pride got in the way affects only you, not your friends and they talk about guys breaking axles for years, about asking for a winch for a day or two.

 

[gliryan]

I realize this, and am full of common sense. However I made my first mistake this year when getting pulled over the last obstacle of a trail. I had made it before, but this time wasn't having any of it. When getting pulled the puller was a little off to my right and my jeep pointing a little more straight, slightly left. Track bar decided that was enough. After then I toned down even a little further. No sense breaking stuff just to get over 1 obstacle.

Onto the axle discussion. I've got an AMC 360 for my postal, it was in my opinion cheap at only $AMC 150 with alternator and power steering pump so I bought it. I would really like a Dauntless Buick 225 V6 v6 in here though for sizing and weight purposes. Either way I'm waiting to put that in until I know I can't find a complete v6 for a reasonable price. I like the offset axle and definitely don't mind working on this now and then. Its torn down in the garage not even close to being trail or even road worthy. I'm thinking I'd like to get this axle up to snuff and use it for the time being. And maybe focus on getting a replacement front axle since the style of this on (knuckles) seems so ancient and proprietary at this point. So would 30 spline flanged axles and a locker go into this 19 spline? Or would I also need a carrier?

 

[BajaEdition]

fortunately a Detroit locker is the carrier also
and you can get the modern axles shafts fro Herm, he has them made up and stocks them
even if you want to keep the 2 piece design
which is not a bad design, just not a strong as the flanged axle, and flanged offset 44s are hard to find. I looked around and bought the full floater kit.
Anyway, you need to look around, a 76 Dana 30 with disc brakes for the front is cheap and all you have to do is fab a new steering link
I would suggest doing a 2 stage brake MC though.
the more you change in that jeep the more you will need to mod, a lot of linkages are not compatible with mods and soon you will be doing pedal/firewall/linkage engineering etc.
I love short nose CJ5s, but believe me, you can wrap a ton of money into them if you try simple swaps without investigating what is involved. Look at your clutch linkage and decide if you want to engineer it because you swap transmissions. And it goes on and on and on

I can buy half done short nose CJ5 builds all day long because someone got into it and did not realize what was involved and wants out. Trust me I have been messing with them since my first 65 Tuxedo Park Park CJ4 back in 78. Great Jeeps, amaze you what they do stock, but you need to know what you are doing to mod them to modern specs, they were engineered in the early 50s

 

[gliryan]

Thanks for the info. I'll see what Herm has for flanged 30 spline axles in stock. I wonder if keeping the two piece axles and adding a locker would be strong enough for wheeling with 33's? What do you think? I'm all for saving money if spending it is not needed. But from what it sounded like the two piece axles were not very strong.

I've got a postal body on a cj frame. So steering is left hand bell/crank on the frame and right hand on the body. I'm going to be spending all winter getting this thing working, pedals, clutch etc… There was a hydraulic clutch setup behind the seats, not sure if it was intended to be installed or not though.