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Why I shouldn't mess with electrics...

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Why I shouldn't mess with electrics...
M

MayberryF3

Jeeper
Posts
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Location
Knoxville
Vehicle(s)
1983 CJ 7, 1942 Willys MBT
I posted this in another forum, but didn't get any help. Then I found this forum and so I'm trying again.

Short version (and all things done by P/O) 1983 CJ7 , AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l with 4.0 head, Mopar FI kit, a/c, and power windows.

When I purchased the CJ everything was in working order, except the stereo was an aftermarket unit, and I would sometimes hear static from the front speakers after turning the CJ off. In a stroke of stupidity, last Tues I decided to pull the stereo out of the dash. That went fine, but when I removed the wiring for the stereo something went bad. First the power windows stopped working, and then I noticed that the a/c and heater blower stopped working. I checked all the fuses that I could find and the only one that doesn't work is
seem to have power is the A/C/Comp socket. Sadly I don't know if I checked the A/C socket, but I will tonight.

She still starts and runs fine, all lights work, windshield wipers, etc. Heck we drove it 500 miles round trip hauling a trailer (small Willys MBT) for Thanksgiving weekend, but I can't figure out what is up with the heater.
I'm actually fine with putting manual windows back in the CJ, but I'd like heat.

Is there a relay or something else I am missing?
 
There's a fuse panel down by the p'brake.
LG
 
As to OEM, yes. Who knows what a PO has done with the wiring.
Advice-Anydangtime you muck with any cars electrical connection. Disconnect the POS(+)side of the battery.
LG
 
Also does the CJ need to be running for the heater blower or a/c to be "on"? As in wth just the key turned to the first click are those able to run?

Because in just key "on" or with the Jeep running still no blower of fan.

Also if this works, here are pics of the power window relay and wires and there is no power to the relay at all.
 
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Have you confirmed you have a fully charged battery with good connection?
LG
 
@Lumpy, yes, fully charged Optima Red Top that I put in since I've had it. Not new but fully charged and a known operating battery. I actually swapped the batter after this happened because I thought the same thing. It cranks over much easier than the old Napa one I took out. The Red Top I have is the 800 cold cranking amps version.

As far as connection, I hooked it up using the same cables that were already in the CJ. That is something though, bad ground somewhere?

Also is it just the fuses in the block that are associated with the heater blower and a/c? Is there not also a relay that goes with those? I ask because the wiring diagram I have is the one from the Hanes manual which to be honest is a pain to use.
 
MayberryF3 said:
So I have pics of the fuse box but I can't get them to post, do they have to be hosted somewhere?
Click to expand...

That fuse box has been highly modified. It should not have all those wires coming out of the front. Looks like the PO just grabbed power from anywhere he could find. Also looks like most of those lines do not have a fuse on them. Connecting to the fuse box from the front doesn't mean a system is fused properly.

I would first suggest a good wiring diagram. I use this one: www.colorwiringdiagrams.com It's in color and matches your OEM wire colors. Makes things a lot easier to trace. Second, run down all of those extra wires and see where the go. Best way to run additional power is to access it from the battery to a separate fuse terminal. You can find these at your local parts store. They usually handle 4 circuits. You may have to pull you dash to get to everything, if so be careful you don't disconnect things. There's not much room for that but it may gain you some access. Also expect this to take more than a day to resolve, so if this is your DD, you may need to make other plans. And ALWAYS pull the battery cables before you start.

I think you've got a mess from the PO, but with some diligence you'll get everything straightened out. Here's another post you should read: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/basic-wiring-101-getting-you-started-1340134/
 
Sorry this is long, but I was busy last night....Thank you for the links. I love the old school scanned in shop manual, and saved it to a flashdrive. And I am learning a lot on the wiring link.

Before I get into what I did last night, I meant to point out that I am hesitant to mess with the wiring too much because the CJ has been modified with the Mopar FI kit. But I did not put that kit in, and I'm not sure who did, and I'm really not sure how it is wired.

Onto last night, I went ahead and began removing all the extra wires. I realize this may be a long process so I am going slow, and hopefully not going to rush. I am also trying and keep everything working since I drive the CJ to work at least on Tues/Thurs every week. I also drove it this morning too.

First thing I did was remove the wiring for the power windows all together. Yes, removing something is what caused this whole issue in the first place, but they are inoperable at the moment. There was a hodge-podge plug into the fuse box, one relay, and one fuse on the relay that were removed.

Next, I looked for wires that were just in there but not connected to anything. I found four wires in the cab with electrical taped ends going up underneath the carpet on the drivers side that were wired to absolutely nothing. They went through the firewall into the engine bay and were just electrical taped ends on that side too.

I also removed all the offroad/fog lights from the front bumper and grill guard. Two of the 4 didn't work, so I went ahead and pulled all four and the wiring from the front bumper into the engine bay where it was mounted to the front inner driver side fender. The wiring continues from the inner fender into the cab and ends at 3 toggle switches on the dash. I have not yet removed the wiring from the toggle switches back into the engine bay. I figure once I get the original wiring sorted it, and if I want to, I can go back and properly label and wire in offroad/fog lights.

Also (and I meant to grab a pic) there is a box and bundle of wires on the engine bay firewall on the upper driver side cowl and it is ugly. It looks like there are whole sections of the box that were just cut off.

Lastly, the PO told me that a "kill switch" had been wired in as well. I know where it is, I've never used it, and at this point I feel that if I flip the switch I'll hear the Mission Impossible message of "you have 5 seconds until this Jeep self destructs". But I also know that in cleaning up this wiring mess I need to remove that switch. Any recommendations on how I go about doing that?
 
MayberryF3 said:
Lastly, the PO told me that a "kill switch" had been wired in as well. I know where it is, I've never used it, and at this point I feel that if I flip the switch I'll hear the Mission Impossible message of "you have 5 seconds until this Jeep self destructs". But I also know that in cleaning up this wiring mess I need to remove that switch. Any recommendations on how I go about doing that?
Click to expand...
Remove the switch and splice the wires together: Strip, twist, solder, cover with shrink tube (adhesive kind if you can find it).
 
Sounds like you are make the right decisions and getting a left over mess cleaned up. Taking one circuit at a time is excellent. The more wires you can remove from the from of that fuse box the better. As for the box in the engine compartment. That is for your fuel injection. Most likely it was cut from a complete harness form another vehicle. There should be relays and large fuses in there. The extra wires were circuits not needed for the swap. Take you time and you will be able to do the same thing for this box that you have done for the inside. A good test light or volt/ohm meter will help. For you extra lights outside of the Jeep be sure to use a relay. That was explained in the prior link I posted. That will keep you safe and make for better light. Lots of people have done that with their main headlights too with very good results. Keep us posted. Pic are great too as we are like kids with a comic book here. :chug:

PS here is what my harness looked like when I redid the entire thing (this is the speedometer cluster):

WP_20141021_005_zps79663997.webp

Also here is a sample of that diagram I was talking about:

Windshield%20Wiper%20Motor%20Diagram_zpscqedpqda.webp
 
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PB thanks but I fell like I'm going backwards. Taking out the lone spliced wire for the power windows, somehow took out the brake lights. Turn signals front and rear still work, headlights and tail lights work, but no brake lights. It's frustrating.
 
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MayberryF3 said:
PB thanks but I fell like I'm going backwards. Taking out the lone spliced wire for the power windows, somehow took out the brake lights. Turn signals front and rear still work, headlights and tail lights work, but no brake lights. It's frustrating.
Click to expand...

Your brake lights, tail lights, backup lights, and fuel gauge wire all run in one group down the driver's side of the tub on the inside. It goes out at the back of the tub. It should run up under the dash and attach to the dash harness. Check the fuse first, then check to see if you have +12v in that line to the lights, then check for a good ground at the tail light housing. I'll stress again how much help the color diagram is for all of this stuff. It sounds like the PO really screwed with the wiring. Shame that some people have no idea what they are doing when they add and change the OEM harness.
 
Back on this after some down time. We had gobs of rain here in Knoxville over the past week. Thankfully cause it helped squash the wildfires nearby. But nevertheless, after my last post I got the tail lights and brake lights working. And I drove the Jeep everyday this week.

But I can't get over why the blower motor won't work so I gave it another go tonight. I was able to remove another PO wiring issue that had a power wire going out of the fuse block and and ground wire from under the dash routed into the center glove box to....nothing. My guess is they had a stereo in the box at one point, but who knows. I was able to remove all that this evening.

Currently all my fuses are good, including the one for the blower motor, but with the key in and turned to on, but not cranked, and with the blower motor knob turned on, I still no power at the wires going into the lower motor. I believe the tan wire is supposed to be the power wire, but it is dead in the 3 prong connection to the blower motor.

According to the wiring diagram it shows a blower motor resistor? But not the location. Could that be it?

Thanks guys, it's getting gold in TN 19 this morning.
 
The blower motor resister is used to help change the fan speed. Here is what it looks like:

HeaterResistorPackLocation_zps30i0f2mg.webp

Here is an excellent article on how to rebuild your heater unit if you should ever decide too: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/cj-heater-box-restoration-pic-heavy-975999/

On my 79 there are three wires that run out of the blower switch. Solid Brown goes to the resister; Tan and black goes to resister; and tan goes to fuse block. From the resister a tan wire goes to the blower motor. The ground for the blower motor is through the body. Add a dedicated ground wire first, then check the resister and the switch.
 
Brake lights out again. I actually heard it blow today while driving to church. Small 2-lane road and I heard that fuzzz of a fuse going.

My new plan is to park it, and pull the dash and see what is going on back there.

Also, my tail lights and turn signals still work perfectly fine.
 
Check the wiring harness that goes over the steering brace, behind the dash panel. That stamped sheet metal brace has sharp edges that will wear through the insulation on the wire. I have had this happen on mine and my sons jeep.
I wrapped the harness in hose.
LG
 
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