360 swap gone bad!

[Hedgehog]

Over the past couple months I've been talking about installing a 360 from a Jeep Wrangler. There have been some hurtles but nothing over the top. It needed a new water pump so it got one, I didn't want to use the Motorcraft distributor so a D.U.I. was purchased, new wires were expected, the carburetor needed float work, no problem. When it came to starting it the first time it roared to life with gusto. Unfortunately the float problem didn't allow the timing to be set.

To night the float problem was fixed, she started right up ..... confession I only had 2 gallons of antifreeze in it, about 2/3rds full, but I wasn't going to do anything other than idle it and warm it up well. Then set the timing.

Everything was going well, then I found the old timing light I was going to use didn't work. No big deal I'd get another one. Then I noticed a water leak from the water pump. I had pinched the gasket, so I wasn't happy, but no big deal. Then I noticed a steam like gas coming from the oil/ PVC/ filter thing on the oil pipe. Strange ... then it got worse and was really coming out, looked like steam and a lot of it. I reached over to do something and hit the throttle by accident speeding the engine up considerably. Steam or something absolutely poured out of the carb (the filter housing wasn't on the carb.), but it was still running.

So, best guesses, WHAT THE F---- HAPPENED?

I could kick myself, last week after hearing the 360 start I sold my old engine to another Jeeper. I am completely broke, I am completely disgusted. I am ready to quite ......... But I love my past Jeeping experiences.

 

[Fastatv]

Check your PCV system and ensure its working. The steam ( as you call it ) may be excessive crankcase pressure. If all the PCV system is good, and the steam is oily in nature, then worn rings is a good possibility. If it is water/antifreeze based, then it could be many things. Hey, take a day or two off from working on it, give it a break....and maybe you will re-charge!

 

[Hedgehog]

The PVC system sems to be working. The actual valve was working when I fixed it's vacuum line. From what I gather the front vent that is part of the oil fill tube (front of the engine) is somehow part of the purging system.

Thanks for the encouragement. Last night was mentally very dark for me. Today I have what amounts to a plan to move forward:

1) Pull the plugs and check for water/wetness

2) Do compression check

3) Fix the water pump gasket. Lesson learned. I pinched the gasket when installing the water pump and thought it would work ..... WRONG

4) Completely fill the radiator with 50/50 mix

5) Properly set the timing

6) Try to recreate the problem, but pay close attention to everything. If possible I will catch some of the "steam". Probably with a cloth, maybe some in a water bottle.

7) Hope beyond hope this turnes out to be nothing.

 

[Deerejeep]

Thanks for the encouragement. Last night was mentally very dark for me. Today I have what amounts to a plan to move forward:

Keep going Hedgehog! I'll be looking to you for support soon when I get mine back!

 

[Hedgehog]

Over and over and over, at least it seems so. The front end is off the jeep, the water pump is ready to reinstall with a new gasket. I'm out of order on my list. Spark plugs and compression check tomorrow before reinstalling the water pump.

 

[NorthwestCJer]

You are going to have water all over. Install the pump. Seal up the engine.
My thoughts, You have the distributor in wrong and your engine timing is off. Everything depends on the timing.
I try to tell people, Over and Over to put the engine in and get it up and running before doing ANY changes like carb, distributor, etc.
If it ran good before you touched it? it is probably something you did.

Slow down and keep you noodle straight. You will get it.


Good luck.

 

[Hedgehog]

Since it wasn't possible to have the motor prove itself without a distributor change, an '82 going a '75. The original water pump was frozen from sitting dry, I've changed dozens of hem with no problem. The pinched gasket was simply stupidity on my part from working late at night and being tired. Most of your advice, while very good advice, wasn't possible in this case. This issue didn't rear it's ugly head until the engine was warmed up the first time in this Jeep. It seemed like a good engine because it starts like no engine I've ever seen, almost instantly it starts, no sputter, no complaining, generally it doesn't tune over a complete revolution before coming to life. Now I'm down to a health check on the compresion side of things. I might have burned something, but the Jeep mechanics say if I were doing that the engine would have been complaining perfusely, especially at idle.

Honestly at this point I think there is little hope that the engine woun't require more work than I can afford right now.

 

[Hedgehog]

Okay here we go. Installed the Water Pump. Checked compression and it was impressive:

Passenger side front to rear: 142, 148, 145, AMC 150
Drivers front to rear: ...........143, 145, 145, AMC 150

Those seem like very strong numbers to me.

The spark plugs that came out ranged from not bad (2) to down right ugly (1). Given that I put oil (Marvel Mystery Oil, love that stuff) in the cylinders right after it was delivered the condition of the plugs was as expected. 8 new spark plugs were gapped to 50 and installed. With the 360 dry I fired her up and hit the timing light. She was actually fairly close. My local Jeep guru said to set the timing to 15 degrees, yes the manual says 8, but I truly trust Rob, so I did and locked her down. All of this took about 2 minutes. After letting her cool down I fired her back up and rechecked the timing. It was spot on.

Tomorrow the front of the engine will be put back on, then the body front and radiator with a full supply of water this time. After an oil change I will try to repeat what happened Tuesday night. Hope beyond hope is steam will never shoot out of the oil tube again.

 

[74G8R2]

atriot: Good luck Hedgehog! Think Captain Kirk, there's always a way out.

 

[Fastatv]

Sounds like things are looking ! Thats great. Keep us posted on whats happening with it. I have a 360 in my 76 CJ7 , and I'll tell you, its very impressive, power wise. Rick

 

[Hedgehog]

The possibilities for failure are narrowed down some. At least there isn't a great big hole in a piston and the rings seem to be working properly, along with the valves. Yes that leaves a bunch of other potential problems. I'm hoping for a blown gasket somewhere near the top, something unbolt and reinstall type easy.

Fastatv - Believe it or not Power wasn't the main reason I did this swap, but lets face it, I am a furtile American male and raw horse power is another form of addiction. :driving:

My goal is for a vehicle that will crawl along on two the tracks I hunt on without making a fuss when it comes to the occasional pot hole, rock pile or muddy spot (I live in the great desert Southwest). I don't want what I hear all the time. A vehicle that idles along and roars like a fan breathing lion everytime it comes to an obsticle that needs a little power.

 

[Hedgehog]

Hey I've got something in my head related to the steam situation. Would it be possible for the water pump gasket leak to be the probelm? Stick with me here. AMC V8 water pumps are in front of the timing cover/oil pump housing. Several of the bolts that hold the water pump on actually penitrate through this housing. The place where the gasket was compromised is part of one of these bolts. Could water chase one of those bolt holes sending steam/water into the hot timing cover housing? The steam has to go somewhere so out the oil tube/crank case vent it goes. The timing would have been right. The engine came up to temp, there should have been more water in the system, water starts to leak from the water pump. Shortly there after the steam appeared. ........

 

[Fastatv]

Hey I've got something in my head related to the steam situation. Would it be possible for the water pump gasket leak to be the probelm? Stick with me here. AMC V8 water pumps are in front of the timing cover/oil pump housing. Several of the bolts that hold the water pump on actually penitrate through this housing. The place where the gasket was compromised is part of one of these bolts. Could water chase one of those bolt holes sending steam/water into the hot timing cover housing? The steam has to go somewhere so out the oil tube/crank case vent it goes. The timing would have been right. The engine came up to temp, there should have been more water in the system, water starts to leak from the water pump. Shortly there after the steam appeared. ........

Hmmmm. I cant really help you there, I have never worked in the water pump area on an AMC 360, or any AMC for that matter but, I would think that could be a possibility. Do you have any water in the oil? Milky on dipstick? Is the steam issue now gone? Maybe one of the more experienced guys will jump in here and help.

 

[Petescj]

Hey I've got something in my head related to the steam situation. Would it be possible for the water pump gasket leak to be the probelm? Stick with me here. AMC V8 water pumps are in front of the timing cover/oil pump housing. Several of the bolts that hold the water pump on actually penitrate through this housing. The place where the gasket was compromised is part of one of these bolts. Could water chase one of those bolt holes sending steam/water into the hot timing cover housing? The steam has to go somewhere so out the oil tube/crank case vent it goes. The timing would have been right. The engine came up to temp, there should have been more water in the system, water starts to leak from the water pump. Shortly there after the steam appeared. ........

When I read this I was thinking the same thing. Its just been so long since I had the Amc V-8 I decided to let the others chime in. I didnt have anything I could go look at to use for a reference since both mine have the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l . I say put it all back together and fill it to the correct level. Turn it over and see what happens.

 

[Hedgehog]

Will be done my friend, most certainly it will be done.............

 

[Old Dog]

Not being an AMC guy I don't know if that's possible or not. But a sbc has bolts in the intake that go into the water jacket and you have to put RTV on the threads to seal them. You might try that.

 

[Deerejeep]

Hey I've got something in my head related to the steam situation. Would it be possible for the water pump gasket leak to be the probelm? Stick with me here. AMC V8 water pumps are in front of the timing cover/oil pump housing. Several of the bolts that hold the water pump on actually penitrate through this housing. The place where the gasket was compromised is part of one of these bolts. Could water chase one of those bolt holes sending steam/water into the hot timing cover housing? The steam has to go somewhere so out the oil tube/crank case vent it goes. The timing would have been right. The engine came up to temp, there should have been more water in the system, water starts to leak from the water pump. Shortly there after the steam appeared. ........

Don't know but I'm buying what your selling... seems reasonable.

 

[Hedgehog]

Yeah I know........ I'm not kidding myself.

 

[Hedgehog]

Annndddd an update......

1) the front was removed, both the body and the gadgets that live on the front of the engine AC pump, Water Pump, a good part of the Power Steering Pump.

2) A new gasket was properly installed on the Water Pump. The manual was consulted for proper torque settings.

3) All the other gadgets were installed with Blue Lock Tite and proper torque.

4) The oil and filter were changed.

5) Hoses were installed.

6) The proper amount of refrigerant was added to the cooling system.

7) The engine was started. Oil and coolant were rechecked and topped off. Darn it all I forgot to put the new gasket on the drain plug. No big deal that can be taken care of later.

8) After a deep breath the engine was started ..... 5 minutes went by ...... panic where's that anti freeze coming from? ... no big deal the radiator cap was purging excess fluid, it was easily cleaned up ...... at the 10 minute mark, nothing new ...... 15 minutes oh my ...... at 20 minutes that darned steam puffing out the oil filler cap did not start happening! Nothing ..... as a matter of fact at the 30 minute mark it was getting rather boring and I shut the old girl off. It was 101 degrees and I went in and popped a cap on a cold beer.

What a difference a few days makes. After running the 360 for 20 minutes there was an unbelievable amount of steam coming out the oil filler tube, I was so upset I was shaking and popped a cap on a beer for an entirely different reason. :madjeep:Today all is well and I can move forward with confidence.:grinjeep:

 

[Petescj]

Nice! Its amazing what can happen when you slow down and get back after it a couple days later. Glad it worked out. I thought youd have the right result after the re-do.