Almost done with engine swap want professional to check my work before starting

[76cj7chick]

Almost done with engine swap wanted professional to check my work before starting

Hi all,

I was finally almost done with my 4.3 gm engine swap on my CJ7 jeep.... I had the entire drive train (and power train) in but wanted a local professional shop to double check the drive train angles and positions for the best spot and get the jeep running and driving while leaving the other things (lights, heater, horn etc alone until and if they can accomplish this. Since I have experience with installing a complete EZ wiring harness and LED bulbs as mentioned in a few of my previous posts that I received a lot of help from all of you and appreciate it a great deal)

I had a couple of business referrals to check out a local shop in Lynnwood (but now that I think of it, the other shops only really said the one shop (I unfortunately ended up having my jeep towed to) was 'great' at wiring. And 'was a walking diagram'.
However, they charged me for $1100 for getting the LED headlights to work and "lab" (research) that they did to figure correct angles etc for drive train (but NEVER completed the drivetrain) and instead focused on lights. They also ordered parts without my consent, never gave me back my parts that they claimed they changed out and charged me to "research" the proper placement for the drive train. The owner also requested many information and diagrams on where the recommended spot was.
And as soon as I put a "down payment" on the "work" they performed laughed at me in front of his receptionist and friend that when "planning her budget she didn't take into consideration all the little things that come up' But I reminded him I only wanted most important things to be done and I could do the rest as I was on a budget.
I also sent countless emails to have them focus on getting it running, timed and check drive train angles/positions and to adjust if needed. And only to look at other things (wouldnhave prefered the TCC switch plate made on the brake pedal over lights- since I can do them myself). I also gave them a hand written note specifying to take care of most important things first. I highlighted the crucial things, and the receptionist took notes when she filled out the service order sheet. Specifically saying take care of important things first and that I had a maximum budget of $1500 to do so.
I feel they took advantage of me. Took my vehicle and when I continued to ask them to stop getting the LED lights to work. (I already installed the wiring for the lights but figured either they had a bad ground or because they were LED bulbs or the dimmer switch was out. I told them to worry about that after they got it running and in the best spot for the drivetrain. (If it needed to be moved.)
They refused to listen to me. And even felt the owner talked down to me and mocked me in front of his friend and front receptionist.
So had the police "help" me retrieve my vehicle but the cop said he didn't have to be there and that they didn't need to give it to me (I paid the bill by the way the day before. Yes, the entire $1100) and said in would pay the balance but wanted them to place a bolt in the cross member to the Transfer Case (like I had when I dropped it off) take out all of their stuff and put all of the parts I brought in the vehicle push it out of their shop and let me call the tow truck to take it home. Owner claimed he couldn't leave it that way due to insurance liability. But I reminded him I was going to have it towed home on a flatbed truck. Neither the cop or owner would help me get my jeep. Said come back at 2pm. I stressed my fear they would damage something. And would want it now. Still I wasn't heard. I only later agreed cause cop kept telling me it was a civil issue and that he needed to

I felt they were predatorial and want to get my money back.

Were my constitutional rights abused by them not allowing me to take it as is?

Also later, I looked under the jeep and the owner NEVER put a bolt in the cross member to the Transfer Case mount. So the entire drive train was sliding around and could have fallen off the crossmember and rejoined the front driveshaft and possibly other components. (So much for worrying about insurance liabilities).

I am wondering if it sounds like I have a case here to get my money back? As I feel they breached our contract by not listening to me and following directions? Also hope to get the almost $200 to have it towed. They also didn't give me my master bushing kit back. Cost me another $135 (Gave to them as well as many other parts just in case they got to them after the important things if within budget. I keep requesting the parts In brought with me as well as the "old" parts that I never authorized to be replaced (and other parts) via email in person and over the phone.
Looking to get the cost of traveling back and forth to the shop on the bus.

I am considering either small claims or if I can get a jury trial so other people will be warned about their preditorial practices.

Sorry for the long thread...

PS. About how long and the cost for a TRUE EXPERT/professional to adjust the drive train in a vehicle if everything is already mounted?

THANKS! :/

By the way I video taped the entire day I went to retrieve my jeep.

 

[JR74CJ5]

Wow - that's quite a post there...

1st - paperwork is key in backing up your claims. If you have a good paper trail of all the things you say above, and their written estimates you signed are in order, you should be good to go.

ALL shops should have duplicate or triplicate estimate slips that they write in and have you sign. You always get a copy so they can't add writing in without your signature etc... They may log phone call approvals after that, depending on the shop.

If you have good paperwork, it's probably a open and closed case.

Small claims you have to represent yourself, but legal council can help you get prepared, which I would suggest because (no offence) your post is a bit all over the place.

You need to have your facts straight, paperwork, emails etc all in line and go from there. Personally, I would get that all in order and go talk to the shop owner and lay your cards out and say "I brought you all this, to do this, for this price - you did this, kept this, and refuse to give me my property back needlessly etc and I feel you took advantage of me because ___" etc. Tell him your plans to bring him to court or whatever your plans be, and see what you two can work out if anything.

Then you have to weigh if going to court for $1100 is worth the time and stress, or chalk it up to experience...

Sorry to hear about your troubles...

 

[76cj7chick]

Wow - that's quite a post there...

1st - paperwork is key in backing up your claims. If you have a good paper trail of all the things you say above, and their written estimates you signed are in order, you should be good to go.

ALL shops should have duplicate or triplicate estimate slips that they write in and have you sign. You always get a copy so they can't add writing in without your signature etc... They may log phone call approvals after that, depending on the shop.

If you have good paperwork, it's probably a open and closed case.

Small claims you have to represent yourself, but legal council can help you get prepared, which I would suggest because (no offence) your post is a bit all over the place.

You need to have your facts straight, paperwork, emails etc all in line and go from there. Personally, I would get that all in order and go talk to the shorp owner and lay your cards out and say "I brought you all this, to do this, for this price - you did this, kept this, and refuse to give me my property back needlessly etc and I feel you took advantage of me because ___" etc. Tell him your plans to bring him to court or whatever your plans be, and see what you two can work out if anything.

Then you have to weigh if going to court for $1100 is worth the time and stress, or chalk it up to experience...

Sorry to hear about your troubles...

Hi jR74cj5,

Thanks for the quick response.
Sorry, I'm stressed out. :/

I believe I have more than enough sufficient information for a strong case. However, I may first see if they would be willing to refund me for the so called "lab" work (which I think they claim is research) and unauthorized things (things that aren't required to make it running and drivable since I was planning to have towed after (no tabs).
Also, I thought that researching, if needed, was part of the shop's job? And that they are only entitled to labour and parts of authorized work done?

But I can't help wonder how many other victims they have taken advantage of. (There were four cars just outside the shop (in their parking lot) with long over expired tabs. One had "tow away 4/30" written on the window. (Which the owner admitted was one of their customers). I also have the cars on video.

They never gave me a written estimate. Nor did they offer one. I thought over a specific amount I am entitled to one? I thought I could trust them to fullfil the contract but, I was obviously wrong. I do have a verbal contract which I reminded him on video and a list of things to finish starting with most important things to get the jeep running and driving before all other (less important) things.

I've asked the owner (and employees) for my items back many times. Including in person which is on video (and cop was there), email (many times) and over the phone. I am waiting to hear back today and will call if I don't get a response by the afternoon. I told them several times via email and in person that I it felt they were taking advantage of me.

I'm going to wait to hear back from the owner. I will call him this afternoon if they don't call me. I will also get the emails, video and paperwork in order and wait for the attorney to contact me back.

I would prefer to just get my money and parts back as I never sued anyone before. But I also don't want them to take advantage of anyone else either.

I am also considering contacting Jesse Jones on Kiro tv to see if they can help make things right.

Thanks again!

 

[oldjeeplady]

Re: Almost done with engine swap wanted professional to check my work before starting

So sorry to hear of your troubles. I don't know what the laws are in your state, but without a written estimate, how can you prove the scope and limitations of the work they were supposed to have done. If they admitted to this in your video, that might hold up in court. We have been to small claims court here in WI for a non jeep issue. Here there are only so many things you can get refunded, for example mileage and time back and forth you don't get. I would strongly suggest to research small claims court for your state. We won are case, but still lost a bunch of travel time, and fuel to go to court. If the shop knows you cannot win without a written contract, and small claims are Limited , that might be really bad to push. Good luck and let us know what happens.

 

[mtnwhlr]

Here in the Denver area one of our News stations has a problems solvers piece where people having your kind of problems call in and then they go after them with it all being on the news for everybody to see. And we also have Tom Martino who also goes after businesses that are screwing people. He is on the radio. I would also get a hold of the BBB. With social media I would go after them big time telling everyone they are just a bunch of crooks. I wish you luck with this.

 

[76cj7chick]

Hi thanks everyone for your helpful ideas and support.

I phoned the owner of the shop and he said he found my (new) master kit bushings and other parts. I had a family member drive me down to their shop since they refused to meet in a neutral location.

I gave them their O2 sensor got all of my parts. They gave me a check for $20. (They double charged me for LED lights. However, I believe if I cash it, that will be like saying I accept the refund and cant purse legal recourse. I also tried to be civil and negotiate on a fair price as In said it felt that they took advantage of me and failed to listen to my instructions (both verbally and written).

I video taped the entire meeting. and will check it out this week.

As mentioned in an earlier post, I was thinking about contacting Jesse Jones with Kiro first. He is a "problem solver" too. But I would need some time to get everything organized.

I also emailed and left a VM for a lawyer for advise and to see if they think I have a case.

I just wish I never took the jeep there.

 

[76cj7chick]

Re: Almost done with engine swap wanted professional to check my work before starting

So sorry to hear of your troubles. I don't know what the laws are in your state, but without a written estimate, how can you prove the scope and limitations of the work they were supposed to have done. If they admitted to this in your video, that might hold up in court. We have been to small claims court here in WI for a non jeep issue. Here there are only so many things you can get refunded, for example mileage and time back and forth you don't get. I would strongly suggest to research small claims court for your state. We won are case, but still lost a bunch of travel time, and fuel to go to court. If the shop knows you cannot win without a written contract, and small claims are Limited , that might be really bad to push. Good luck and let us know what happens.

Hi oldjeeplady. Love the name by the way

Glad to hear you won your case.

I have a written list I gave them (and emailed them) of things to do and it States to perform most important things to get jeep running and driving safely. I believe I have him admit it on camera too.

It would be nice if they just refunded me for all the bogus charges and things I specifically asked to stop working on.

Thanks for your ideas and suggestions. I'll try to keep you all up todate.

 

[76cj7chick]

Here in the Denver area one of our News stations has a problems solvers piece where people having your kind of problems call in and then they go after them with it all being on the news for everybody to see. And we also have Tom Martino who also goes after businesses that are screwing people. He is on the radio. I would also get a hold of the BBB. With social media I would go after them big time telling everyone they are just a bunch of crooks. I wish you luck with this.

Thanks for the brainstorming mtnwhlr.

The sad thing is they have a great poker and poor us face. Oh I have a doctors appointment yeah, like who has an appointment every day and why were you at the shop when you claimed you had to go to an appointment? ......I even fell for their manipulation. :/ So I would need to find people who aren't easily manipulated.

I'm not so into BBB. I heard businesses can "buy" their A rating.... But that may just be hearsay.... So, I will contact them too. I contacted the Attorney general for Washington State. I will also make a consumers report complaint. And keep researching for other ways to inform the public about their, what I believe is, predatorial practices.

 

[mriplaybass]

WOW! Sounds like these people should not be in business! Charging you to do research? This sounds like they are going to try to get away with as much as they can. I have taken on jobs that had me totally stumped and took hours of research to figure out. Ultimately, I made about $2.00 per hour because I felt furthering my education had benefits to me and I could not ask the customer to pay for my education.
As Oldjeeplady and JR said, paperwork is essential! Times when I have to hire a professional to do a job that I don't have the tools or knowledge to perform, there is always a line on the form stating a maximum dollar amount after which they need my approval before continuing. Unless you waived this part of the estimate, they should have called you before continuing. As my wife stated, we went through a small claims case years ago and won. Problem is, after travel time, time off work to go to court, etc., we ultimately only received about 70% of what we lost. In addition to this, the plaintiff still did not pay us. The court's involvement stops once the decision is made. We had to file another action to get the deadbeat to finally pay, which cost us more time and money.
I know that you are on a budget and don't want to pay big bucks to a lawyer. Honestly, the lawyer will probably cost you more than what you are trying to get back from these jerks. Maybe you can try something like Just Answer to get some professional advice affordably. They have everything from mechanics to doctors to lawyers. I think that they charge $25 to $45 to help you with your problem. One time fee, and they stay with you until you say that they solved your problem. I am a registered member and it only costs me $9 per month for unlimited questions. Might be worth a try.

 

[HackFabrication]

I just wish I never took the jeep there.

I could fill a bookshelf with all the places I wish never touched any of my junk (Jeep/Boats/Harley) or did work on my house.

Not familiar with the laws in Washington, but in Michigan the laws protect contractors and shops. Most courts, even if they agree with your, will rule that the contractor/shop has to 'make it right'. As in the repair. Which means the same knuckleheads that screwed it up the first time, will get another run at it. When they get around to it... (I went through this with a basement waterproofing job.)

For $1100, I'd just be happy you got your Jeep back, and walk away.

 

[JR74CJ5]

Unfortunately, I agree with Hack - that's my advice too - but I understand how irritated that will make you to read...

In the end - it's all up to how much time and effort you want to put in this vs getting the jeep done... If you have the patients, and determination, you may come out with a favorable response...

If you do go down that route - I do wish you the best!

 

[76cj7chick]

WOW! Sounds like these people should not be in business! Charging you to do research? This sounds like they are going to try to get away with as much as they can. I have taken on jobs that had me totally stumped and took hours of research to figure out. Ultimately, I made about $2.00 per hour because I felt furthering my education had benefits to me and I could not ask the customer to pay for my education.
As Oldjeeplady and JR said, paperwork is essential! Times when I have to hire a professional to do a job that I don't have the tools or knowledge to perform, there is always a line on the form stating a maximum dollar amount after which they need my approval before continuing. Unless you waived this part of the estimate, they should have called you before continuing. As my wife stated, we went through a small claims case years ago and won. Problem is, after travel time, time off work to go to court, etc., we ultimately only received about 70% of what we lost. In addition to this, the plaintiff still did not pay us. The court's involvement stops once the decision is made. We had to file another action to get the deadbeat to finally pay, which cost us more time and money.
I know that you are on a budget and don't want to pay big bucks to a lawyer. Honestly, the lawyer will probably cost you more than what you are trying to get back from these jerks. Maybe you can try something like Just Answer to get some professional advice affordably. They have everything from mechanics to doctors to lawyers. I think that they charge $25 to $45 to help you with your problem. One time fee, and they stay with you until you say that they solved your problem. I am a registered member and it only costs me $9 per month for unlimited questions. Might be worth a try.

Yeah, they are pretty horrible. Sounds like there are too many crooked and scamming companies out there.
I reported the company and their deceptive practices to the attorney General, to the BBB and will to several other organizations. I have some other resources that I would not prefer not to post as I wouldn't want to know about until the right moment.


Thanks for your support and suggestions.

 

[Hedgehog]

I can not voice how disappointed I am with your most recent experience. Especially after all the trials and tribulations you've gone through with your upgrade and it is completely different vehicle level upgrade. In the end I have to continue to be a bit of a cheerleader for you. Have confidence in your ability and thinking. The engine location and Transmission location doesn't have to be NASA type accurate. Within reason, if the engine/Transmission fits in the hole you are putting it in, and is reasonably centered in the frame, you are good to go. I do remember you were having problems with the front driveshaft clearing something, I think it was the starter, it is acceptable to offset the engine a little bit for clearance issues. If the propeller isn't perfectly centered, well that's what universal joints are all about. If you need custom drive shafts made, no big deal, just measure the way your driveshaft people want and you are good to go. A measurement that is a little off, no big deal that's what the spline is for.

I guess it's the father of 2 girls in me speaking, I'm proud of you for even taking on a job like this, it shows good old fashioned moxi, good on yeah girl! With you being silent for so long I was sure you'd given up and moved on.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Late to the 'party'.
OP-May I ask if you had ck'd the BBB rating or any other media rating of this outfit before contacting them?
Respectfully,
LG

 

[76cj7chick]

I can not voice how disappointed I am with your most recent experience. Especially after all the trials and tribulations you've gone through with your upgrade and it is completely different vehicle level upgrade. In the end I have to continue to be a bit of a cheerleader for you. Have confidence in your ability and thinking. The engine location and Transmission location doesn't have to be NASA type accurate. Within reason, if the engine/Transmission fits in the hole you are putting it in, and is reasonably centered in the frame, you are good to go. I do remember you were having problems with the front driveshaft clearing something, I think it was the starter, it is acceptable to offset the engine a little bit for clearance issues. If the propeller isn't perfectly centered, well that's what universal joints are all about. If you need custom drive shafts made, no big deal, just measure the way your driveshaft people want and you are good to go. A measurement that is a little off, no big deal that's what the spline is for.

I guess it's the father of 2 girls in me speaking, I'm proud of you for even taking on a job like this, it shows good old fashioned moxi, good on yeah girl! With you being silent for so long I was sure you'd given up and moved on.

Hi Hedgehog,
Thanks for those inspiring and encouraging words. I think I am kind of hardheaded as I really know that after the hard parts of getting the drive train in the right spot and figuring out what to do with the TCC switch and what to do with the VSS infared light, and a few other (simpler) wiring then it would be a good and dependable vehicle.

I think you're right about over thinking it. Here I was led to believe this local shop were experts and yet all they could do is turn the key and it start ed. And then all they did was back trace my own already installed wires.... (LOL). I think their egos may have been bruised a bit knowing a girl was better than them mechanically. (Don't worry, I know many of you would blow me out of the "water" in the talent and skills set)... Just sad amd misleading that they advertised as experts in drive train and fabrication and mods. (Liars).

Thanks again for your kind thoughts and encouragements.

Oh, by the way I was having clearance issues with the Transmission pan and front drive shaft.

 

[76cj7chick]

Late to the 'party'.
OP-May I ask if you had ck'd the BBB rating or any other media rating of this outfit before contacting them?
Respectfully,
LG

Hi Lumpy grits-
I did do my homework... Well had other businesses recommend them and they have a A on BBB.
But I think they treat businesses differently than just regular "poor" customers. I saw four cars sitting just outside their shop one had "tow away 4/30" on it (but it wasn't towed after that date when I went to get the parts they "forgot" to give me.) And the other three had expired tabs. The owner told me that the one to be towed was abandoned by the owner and they couldn't get a hold of her.
I would have abandoned my vehicle there too if my vehicle was anything but a jeep.

So, I wonder how many people they have over charged and falsely charged? And I wonder how many people just abandoned their vehicles there?

The scariest people are those who have two or more "faces" and let you see all sides....

 

[76cj7chick]

I drained and redid my motor oil, and changed my Transmission oil, gasket and filter and other fluids and noticed on the engine pulley it looked like someone may have cut it in the groove straight across... OR is this normal????

Please tell me its normal and I'm just being paranoid.

 

[76cj7chick]

Here is a clearer photo..... Is it normal? Or should I be worried? :/

 

[HackFabrication]

Looks like it's been cut with a sawsall.

Did you remove the engine yourself or buy it out of the vehicle?

 

[76cj7chick]

Looks like it's been cut with a sawsall.

Did you remove the engine yourself or buy it out of the vehicle?

A sawsall? That's not good..... Does it pose a potential danger?

I bought the entire blazer and removed the engine myself. (with a little help from family).
I am looking through old photos (I have hundreds and I found one that's pretty clear and I don't see the cut.... However, I want to make sure and look at all the others.) If I find more photos without the cut I will contact the shop and ask how/why it happen).

...I spoke to my brother and he thinks it might be from the manufacturer but not sure. So I will keep going through my photos.

I was really thinking about what you all said (and my family and others) said to be happy I got the jeep back and just complain about their deceitful practices and then move on.... But I don't know now if this was cut on purpose. (Is there any potential danger?) If it is a manufacturers thing I just want to move on.

One thing I know is that I will tell everyone that lives in WA State who they are NOT to trust them.

May I get other opinions on if this is factory cut or something else?
Thanks for your help.