Axle swap help/suggestions needed

[turbojn997]

Hello group. I'm looking to upgrade my axles with a larger set. I see lots of others with GM 14 bolt rears and Dana 60 fronts. I would love everyone's opinion. I would also need a list of vehicles that I could get said axles out of with minimal fab work required. I know I'm asking a lot but I'm looking for a "bolt right up" solution if there is one. I'm currently running an AMC20 rear locked with a Detroit Locker, 4.10 Yukon Gears, 1 piece G2 Axles, and SBC Brake Disc Conversion. The front is a Dana 30 locked with a Detroit Locker, 4.10 Yukon Gears, and SuperWinch Locking Hubs. I'm running 35" tires on 15x8 black steeles. 4" lift with 2.5" Teraflex Shackle Revolvers on all 4 corners. 4.0 High Output Weber 38 carbed with HEI ignition. T-176 4 speed Transmission . Dana 300 Tcase. I would like to run 37's or larger tires and not do a spring over conversion. Steering, driveshafts, and brakes are also a concern of mine. I'd like to run Hummer H1 wheels. Any and all suggestions/advice are welcome. Thanks guys and gals ��

 

[Torxhead]

I would suggest if you are going to run a tire as large as a 37 it would require at least a Dana 60 in the rear with a Dana 44 up front with aftermarket u-joints. Stopping a CJ with that size tire will require
a brake system upgrade of a least a brake booster.

 

[Posi]

I know I'm asking a lot but I'm looking for a "bolt right up" solution if there is one. I would like to run 37's or larger tires and not do a spring over conversion. Steering, driveshafts, and brakes are also a concern of mine. I'd like to run Hummer H1 wheels.

Your limiting your choices with the amount of work you want to invest.
The front 60/14 will be more work then you want
You could do J20 44/60 but you'll need new rims and the wheels will stick out stupid far.
I think a 74-79 wagon/cherokee would be the least amount of work, but you would still need to buy new rims (6 bolt), and deal with the steering.
Forget about the H1 rims you'll need to cut off the knuckle steering arm because of the 7" of offset and go hi-steer.
Sounds like you currently have a pretty good set up on your CJ now.

 

[turbojn997]

Ok. So a wagoneer. Sounds good. What kind of work will be required to make this work? By wheels you mean offset and lug pattern? If that is the case I completely understand that. What would be required steering, brakes, and driveshaft wise? And how easy it is to find these guys...

 

[Lumpy Grits]

The '60' is a 'tank' in strength and WEIGHT.
I would go to 4:88 R&P. Your clutch, tranny and driveline will thank you.
Have you look'd at a Ford 9" for the front or rear?
LG

 

[turbojn997]

The '60' is a 'tank' in strength and WEIGHT.
I would go to 4:88 R&P. Your clutch, tranny and driveline will thank you.
Have you look'd at a Ford 9" for the front or rear?
LG

I haven't looked at anything yet Lumpy. Just trying to get suggestions and recommendations. Looking for more of a bolt on bigger wider upgrade. If that exists...

 

[Posi]

Lugs, you have 5x5 the wagon is 6x5.
Also, when I swapped in a wagon front I cut the tube so I didn't have to outboard the springs. Cutting the tube, I also had to cut the drag link and tie rod which you shouldn't have to do keeping it full width.
Plan on outboarding the springs.
Ford 9 would be an option as LG mentioned as well.
Do a search there should be plenty of write-ups.

 

[turbojn997]

What is outboarding the springs exactly?

 

[Woolyworm]

Stock springs mount directly under the frame - outboarding involves making hangers that attach to the outside vertical face of the frame and hanging the springs from those so that you have a wider spring stance.


Wooly

 

[Posi]

CJ Full Width Axle Conversion Kit | Jeep Axle Conversion | Poison Spyder Customs

 

[turbojn997]

CJ Full Width Axle Conversion Kit | Jeep Axle Conversion | Poison Spyder Customs

Mother of god... I'm going to do this. You rock Posi! Ok. So, is there any 1 truck that I could get both front and rear axles out of? Also. What will this do to my steering setup which is currently stock. My brake lines front and rear are mondo long (custom stainless steel) I guess I would use the brake setup that comes with the axles? And lastly, driveshafts?

 

[Posi]

One option, 74-79 narrow track wagoneer or cherokee with manual Transmission has the front and rear centered 44

The gearing would most likely be the stock 3.54
Use the stock 44 tie rod and drag link, the only thing you may have to do is ream out the pitman arm to 5/8 “ to except the larger 44 drag link end. It's been awhile since I did that job but this is what I recall. If you need a pitman arm reamed out for 5/8” I have an extra one. I don't recall doing anything to the the driveshaft outside of an upgraded u-joint.

 

[turbojn997]

One option, 74-79 narrow track wagoneer or cherokee with manual Transmission has the front and rear centered 44

The gearing would most likely be the stock 3.54
Use the stock 44 tie rod and drag link, the only thing you may have to do is ream out the pitman arm to 5/8 “ to except the larger 44 drag link end. It's been awhile since I did that job but this is what I recall. If you need a pitman arm reamed out for 5/8” I have an extra one. I don't recall doing anything to the the driveshaft outside of an upgraded u-joint.

Awesome. So I would use the drive shafts from the donor vehicle? Thank you for the offer on the pitman arm. The one I currently have is a drop pitman arm, I'll just drill it out. You've been awesome Posi. And all this will work with my Transfer Case right?

 

[Posi]

You should be able to use your current DS. I used a couple of ford explorer DS.

Look at the tie rod and drag links

Top stock - cherokee
middle - aftermarket 30
bottom - stock 30



I reamed out the pitman arm and cut and re-threaded the TR and DL



This is my front cherokee 44 cut down 4" and TR and DL cut to fit.



This is with a ford hub to make it 5x5 bolt



The pitman arm has to be reamed out tampered. Yes on the Transfer Case

 

[turbojn997]

You should be able to use your current DS. I used a couple of ford explorer DS.

Look at the tie rod and drag links

Top stock - cherokee
middle - aftermarket 30
bottom - stock 30



I reamed out the pitman arm and cut and re-threaded the TR and DL



This is my front cherokee 44 cut down 4" and TR and DL cut to fit.



This is with a ford hub to make it 5x5 bolt



The pitman arm has to be reamed out tampered. Yes on the Transfer Case

Sweet setup Posi, I am jealous. Why did you cut yours down 4" though?

 

[Posi]

To make the front 44 close to 30 front and rear CJ 44 width.

 

[Torxhead]

To make the front 44 close to 30 front and rear CJ 44 width.

I have seen even CJs with stock size tires bend up those stock tie rods, good point there Posi. Also Turbonjn997, having a CJ as short and narrow as you can will get you in and out of tighter spots on the trail:Jim in a jam - Jeep-CJ Gallery

 

[turbojn997]

I have seen even CJs with stock size tires bend up those stock tie rods, good point there Posi. Also Turbonjn997, having a CJ as short and narrow as you can will get you in and out of tighter spots on the trail:Jim in a jam - Jeep-CJ Gallery

Agreed Torx. I would like just a bit wider and a bit stronger. I like the steering linkage upgrade a lot. I understand the AMC20 has weak axle tubes. I was also considering trussing it and welding the tubes but still, I really wanted larger diameter axle shafts. The front 30 pretty much the same thing, stronger/heavier with bigger steering components. Money is an object here and it is my daily driver... Idk, I've never run into problems yet.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

One cheap way to strengthen the OEM tie-rod, is to slide a section of 1/2" rebar inside the tube.......
LG

 

[CJim7]

You have a lot of options, from larger axles to using what you have.

First off, if you are considering running full width axles, you should consider something larger than 37" tires....with full width axles you lose clearance, it's all geometry. with axles like D60's, 14 bolts, you lose clearance at the pumpkin in particular.

Another thing to consider is if you are keeping your height where it is, and going larger in tires, you will need to keep the full width for reasons of body clearance. You wont be able to turn the wheel on 37's on up without more offset.

You can cut 60's and 14 bolts down to gain the geometry you have lost, but will limit yourself on tire size without doing some major body work.

All that being said, 14 bolts can be had for dirt cheap. they are stronger than the 60 and there are more options for it. A rear 60 needs work. The stock shafts are not very desirable believe it or not...the front 60 is a different issue, they tend to run expensive and then require a lot of work to get it all in sync with your Jeep, and most D60 fronts use Dana 44 outer components. Even a rear 60 needs work. The stock shafts are not very desirable believe it or not.....and most D60 fronts use Dana 44 outer components.

Scout II axles are (or were) a popular choice for Dana 44 's as the width is close to a CJ (about 6 inch difference) and the perches need minimal work. The front needs castor added as they are set factory at 0-castor.

Ford 9's. Big bearing is the way to go, and now with the front 9 being an option, these are a great choice in weight, clearance, and strength.

Now, about your stock axles......the only real weak spot on the 20 is the axle tubes (as you know)...the rest of the components are equal to or stronger than a Dana 44 .
The front 30 needs a lot of work. the Ujoint is the weak spot if the hub doesn't go first. the problem with upgrading the Ujoint and hubs is it moves the weak spot to the R&P, where you don't want it. They do make hub fuses....but Im not a fan of them.

Right now I run 36's on a locked 30/20 combo and break U-joints regularly if I'm not being careful. But I like the light weight, good clearance stock axles. That, and it teaches you some finesse and control on the rocks