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Brakes Bleeding brakes

Brakes Bleeding brakes

b3uhbp

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Location
Arlington, TX
Vehicle(s)
84 CJ7, 258, T5, Dana 300, Dana 30' AMC 20' Weber 32/36 carb, DUI HEI ignition, 2.5" suspension lift
My brake fluid looks like mud so I want to bleed/replace the fluid. Simple right? Well the FSM says to install Metering Valve Tool, J-26869 on the stem of the proportioning valve to hold the valve open. Is this necessary to bleed brakes properly and where can you get one or will something else suffice?
 
I've not used the recommended tool, but learned that starting with fronts, then rear and finish with fronts again worked for me
 
I always start bleeding with the tire farthest from the MC and work my way around by distance twice and it's worked for me.
Biggest thing my dad taught me is to have the bleeding hose in a jar with the end in some fluid already so air can't get sucked back into the brake wheel cylinder or caliper.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
 
The spool valve end sticks out though the combination valve end...
There is often a rubber boot over that spool valve end.

You will find a groove in the nut housing holding the spool valve end, and a groove in the spool valve end.
The tool holds the spool valve in place when you bleed brakes.

Some people use a dime and hose clamp, but it doesn't work on all combination valves.
You can also clamp SOFT JAW vice grips to hold the spool valve tail, and use a clamp to hold the vice grips in place.

*IF* you use 'One Man' bleeders in your calipers/wheel cylinders (get them at the parts stores) it keeps back pressure against the combination valve and keeps it centered.

If you don't keep that valve centred, it will cut off the end with low pressure, and the valve will have to be centered again before you can bleed.

Some people don't know how to bleed without tripping the combo valve, and the tool is the best bet to get the job done if you don't know how to 'Short Stroke' to keep back pressure on the valve.
The second best way is 'One Man' bleeders.
 
The spool valve end sticks out though the combination valve end...
There is often a rubber boot over that spool valve end.

You will find a groove in the nut housing holding the spool valve end, and a groove in the spool valve end.
The tool holds the spool valve in place when you bleed brakes.

Some people use a dime and hose clamp, but it doesn't work on all combination valves.
You can also clamp SOFT JAW vice grips to hold the spool valve tail, and use a clamp to hold the vice grips in place.

*IF* you use 'One Man' bleeders in your calipers/wheel cylinders (get them at the parts stores) it keeps back pressure against the combination valve and keeps it centered.

If you don't keep that valve centred, it will cut off the end with low pressure, and the valve will have to be centered again before you can bleed.

Some people don't know how to bleed without tripping the combo valve, and the tool is the best bet to get the job done if you don't know how to 'Short Stroke' to keep back pressure on the valve.
The second best way is 'One Man' bleeders.
Thanks. Very good information. I think I can come up with something to keep the spool valve out. I’ll try the dime method. I’ve always just bled the brakes and ignored the combo valve but have wondered if I’m getting it done right even though the brakes seem fine. I use a helper to pump brakes while I bleed lines.
 
Thanks. Very good information. I think I can come up with something to keep the spool valve out. I’ll try the dime method. I’ve always just bled the brakes and ignored the combo valve but have wondered if I’m getting it done right even though the brakes seem fine. I use a helper to pump brakes while I bleed lines.
Also, thanks to all for your responses. PS the FSM states to bleed in this order, RR, LR, RF, LF.
 
Yes, always bleed from the farthest away from the master cylinder to the closest to the master cylinder.
 
The combo valve moves on DIFFERENTIAL PRESSURE...
*IF* you bleed front & rear at the same time (3 people) this won't be an issue.

*IF* you don't overpressure the valve, slow pedal stroke, work front to rear and back to front, you won't trip the valve.

Slow, even pedal strokes with quick closing of the wheel cylinders won't trip the valve (or suck in air).

Open the wheel valve, have someone press GENTLY on the pedal, and close valve BEFORE stream stops will keep the valve from tripping or sucking air.

You just need to move brake fluid, you don't need to build the kind of pressure it takes to trip the emergency valve...
Heavy foot on the pedal always makes things take longer.
 
The combo valve moves on DIFFERENTIAL PRESSURE...
*IF* you bleed front & rear at the same time (3 people) this won't be an issue.

*IF* you don't overpressure the valve, slow pedal stroke, work front to rear and back to front, you won't trip the valve.

Slow, even pedal strokes with quick closing of the wheel cylinders won't trip the valve (or suck in air).

Open the wheel valve, have someone press GENTLY on the pedal, and close valve BEFORE stream stops will keep the valve from tripping or sucking air.

You just need to move brake fluid, you don't need to build the kind of pressure it takes to trip the emergency valve...
Heavy foot on the pedal always makes things take longer.
What happens if the valve does get tripped?
 
What happens if the valve does get tripped?

Open valves at both ends, move the tail of the spool valve (all you can see outside the valve body) to center.
 
Safety Brakes.

After HORRENDOUS crashes from brake failures, safety regulation bodies demanded redundancy in brake systems...
This will depend on what YEAR model you have, manufacturers have to be beat along the path of safety, they rarely do things that increase cost on their own...

The earliest systems were single cavity master cylinders that fed all brake cylinders.
One leak, bad pump in master cylinder, you lost all brakes at once.

When I work on one of these that's not a display piece or hanger queen,
If it's going to be driven, I update to safety brake master cylinders so the front & rear are on different lines.
I'm all about proper restoration for museums, but highway safety is something I won't compromise, if it's going to be driven often on public highways, it MUST be updated.

-----------

'Safety Brakes' have two separate brake systems.
Two separate hydraulic fluid cavities in the master cylinder, to different hydraulic pumps (on common shaft) in the master cylinder, two separate feed lines to the safety valve.

In drum brakes, this pretty well split the system front/rear,
The safety valve will shut down the end with the leak, giving you REDUCED braking capacity, but you still have brakes!

With disk brakes you will have two different sized bores for the plungers/pistons in the master cylinder since disks require different volumes/pressures than drums.
The common plunger/piston rod makes this an elegant design.
Simply two sizes of bores, two plungers on one shaft, and this works quite well with few failures.

Now, if you have the newer style 'Safety Brakes', (disk brakes)
These realize the fact about 70%-80% of braking is done on the FRONT brakes (weight transfers forward when braking, increasing traction),
So you will find there are lines to EACH front brake,
While you will find the rear brakes are on one common line which services both rear brakes evenly.
You will see two FEED lines from master cylinder (front/rear) to safety combination valve, and THREE lines coming out of the combination valve.

Again, the idea is to give you as much braking power as possible in the event of a failure at one corner, the two front delivering more braking power than the rear combined.

The safety valve simply uses high pressure on one end to push the valve off center to block the low pressure line(s) that have leaks.
This saves fluid (which is a fire hazard) and let's you know there is a problem by activating the 'Brake' light on the dash.

When you bleed the rear, it's a common line, doesn't matter which side is open, they are both on a common line.

When you open a front wheel cylinder, swap back and forth Left to Right and back to left, etc.
The fronts have separate lines in most newer CJs, keep that pressure consistent so back pressure doesn't build up and move the spool.

Again, there are very stiff springs in the valve, an open valve, front/rear alternation and LIGHT pressure on the pedal will often keep the valve from moving.
(Ever wonder why professionals like to bleed brakes on a lift so it's easy to move left/right, front/rear?)

Once you have a safety combo valve apart and understand how it works,
It's design genius becomes apparent, it's VERY elegant and durable design...
But it DOES require clean fluid, no moisture.
Dirty fluid or anything that will cause corrosion can stop the valve from working correctly, I've pulled them apart and found them caked solid with crud/corrosion,
So what the OP is doing by changing/flushing the hydraulic system is a REALLY good idea.

When clean, the system lasts for decades.
(how often do you change master cylinders or safety valves/wheel cylinders?)

-----------

This by no means is the last word on brakes,
We didn't cover hydraulic differential ratios, things like back pressure valves, a ton of other stuff built into brake systems you shouldn't ever have to change when you simply replace failed components or do maintenance.

I'm NOT encouraging anyone to attempt to re-engineer your brake systems,
That takes a specific engineering education to be even remotely safe, even more difficult to be redundant like the factory system is.

Just switching from drums to disks can be challenging, or from manual to power brakes can be challenging.
The backpressure valves in the bottom of the master cylinder usually drives drum to disk conversion guys nuts...
 
Last edited:
Awesome write up! Thanks so much. BTW my system is front disk and rear drum and the master cylinder reservoir is split. I had my wife pumping the brakes for me and I became concerned she had pumped too hard but I examined the spool valve after bleeding and it seems to be in the proper position and brake performance is good even with 33s. Thanks again.
 
Awesome write up! Thanks so much. BTW my system is front disk and rear drum and the master cylinder reservoir is split. I had my wife pumping the brakes for me and I became concerned she had pumped too hard but I examined the spool valve after bleeding and it seems to be in the proper position and brake performance is good even with 33s. Thanks again.

I always tell the helper 'Slow & Even', not 'Hard'.
It's usually the guys trying to power bleed with power brakes that get into trouble... The springs in the combo valve are pretty stiff, but power brakes and getting in a hurry causes problems...

With your front disks, there will be a line out to each front caliper,
While there will be a common line to the rear that has a common 'T' in it, probably mounted to the axle housing.

To check your 'Brake' light,
Simply pull the electrical connector off the combo valve (carefully), and use a jumper wire from frame to 'Ground' it,
Then the key switch on, see if the 'Brake' light is lit in the dash.

Then I would test the E-brake switch also simply by applying the E-brake to see if that light comes on/goes out when it's supposed to.
 
The brake light was on when I started it up but on push on the pedal and it went off. E-brake light works as well.
 

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