Chrysler owning Jeep

[tjmons]

No one can ever replace the true American classic. Thank you everyone who continues to keep the one and only part of American history alive.

 

[grozam]

A lot of good points mentioned on this thread! With that said, I like simple over complicated. I also think the new forign parts they use today make a new one not as good. The governments role is the worst thing that happened to the new ones except for the gas mileage. Gas mileage is the only thing that I like better with a new one than my CJ. At least I can fix it myself cheaper when something goes wrong.

 

[Petescj]

Alot of times this type of thread goes hideously awry and turns into a some off topic rants that ruffle other members feathers until the authorities are brought in.

Id like to thank everyone for keeping this on topic and civil. Honestly its a pleasure being a moderator on this forum cause the members make it much easier than other sites Ive frequented.

As is the usual case there is always one bad apple though. He'll probably post a picture of an alligator eating a kangaroo at one point. Just ignore him.

Chrysler, actually majority owned by FIAT, should have been allowed to go out of business along with Chevy/GMC. This whole notion of being too big to fail is just part of nationalization of corporations and shouldn't be allowed. Someone else would have moved in to fill the shoes as has been the case in the past. Little trivia, Chrysler came into being from the Maxwell Motor Company...Chrysler as we know also bought out AMC so in the end, without government interference, we would all be better off. I have always hated Mopar and used to be a Chevy man, but now I wouldn't own either...

Hmmm...did I go off thread?

 

[alpha6]

Alot of times this type of thread goes hideously awry and turns into a some off topic rants that ruffle other members feathers until the authorities are brought in.

Id like to thank everyone for keeping this on topic and civil. Honestly its a pleasure being a moderator on this forum cause the members make it much easier than other sites Ive frequented.

As is the usual case there is always one bad apple though. He'll probably post a picture of an alligator eating a kangaroo at one point. Just ignore him.

Hey Pete...I see you are in the paper again! Probe Launched Into Possible Redneck Cluster In The Midstate | THE CENTRAL PA GAZELLE

 

[Petescj]

. I shouldve just left it alone.

 

[Tin Medic]

Pete, he's got a bone to pick with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[AMCCJ7]

No one can ever replace the true American classic. Thank you everyone who continues to keep the one and only part of American history alive.

I think this statement makes all of us Proud when we see someone looking at our Cj,s in some parking lot! Well said...

 

[PaRenegade]

What are your thoughts on Chrysler owning the jeep brand? Would you rather see someone else building the new jeeps? I would ,as I feel they are not as good as before.

Funny you should ask that. I've always liked Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth and Mopar in general. My dd is a Dodge Ram pu. My issue with Chrysler is their exploitation of the Jeep vehicle. And yes, I like the stickers and shirts that say "It's a Jeep thing, Chrysler never understood". The Jeep was a vehicle developed in the early 40's, given the name "Jeep", and helped to win the war. Then modified from war use to civilian use. Two versions, the MB and the CJ. Willy's trucks or cars weren't called Jeeps. Only the Jeep was called a Jeep. The war/military version died off as the civilian version continued on till the end. Both version creating it's iconic status around the world. In fact they even trademarked the name in 1950 so they could create a company with it's name as [the brand]. However the actual Jeep vehicle remained as the flagship model.
But as time and regulation (and media) would have it, the Jeep's dimise was hard hit in 1983 and then the final blow came in 1985 when the current owner, AMC, announced on Nov. 29th that the 1986 Jeeps would be the last.
"The quarter-ton Jeep earned a worldwide reputation for ruggedness and versatility in wartime. That tradition has continued for more than four decades that the CJ has been sold to the public. Completion of the CJ production will signal an end of a very important era in Jeep history." -Joseph Cappy AMC vice president of operations

Now, AMC announced it's end of production. They even created a new vehicle to fill that market niche now vacant. And they gave their new vehicle a name. The Wrangler. It had many differences inside and out, from a new frame and body to a new top. New drivetrain, new interior. It was by industry standards, a new vehicle. Sure, some parts were interchangable but mainly to use up existing stock.

So heres my issue with Chrysler. They knew gaining market status as a top vehicle in it's class is sometimes a hard hill to climb, so they jumped on the coat tails of the now defunct Jeep and played their vehicle up to be "just a new version" of the legendary Jeep instead of letting it stand on it's own. Shape the complacent public's perception and the money will start to roll in. Never mind that the Wrangler was not a progression from the CJ lineage, as admitted to by it's creator AMC, the common folk don't pay attention to details (just watch politics) and won't pick up on it. And soon the new generations won't even know the difference.
And by acquiring the legal rights to the Jeep trademark after buying out AMC, they could do it legally.

So to many who know Jeeps, a Jeep CJ is a Jeep and a Wrangler yj, tj, lj, jk, is a Wrangler. The only similarity is the 7 slot grill.

We will never see anyone bringing back and building new Jeeps. It's beauty in simplicity has been outlawed by regulation.

 

[Tin Medic]

It's beauty in simplicity has been outlawed by regulation.

And that my friends, is very depressing.

 

[thiswontbetooexpensive]

So to many who know Jeeps, a Jeep CJ is a Jeep and a Wrangler yj, tj, lj, jk, is a Wrangler. The only similarity is the 7 slot grill.

We will never see anyone bringing back and building new Jeeps. It's beauty in simplicity has been outlawed by regulation.

I almost wept reading this PaRenegade. Thanks for so eloquently stating the plain and simple truth.

 

[Kilo19]

I almost wept reading this PaRenegade. Thanks for so eloquently stating the plain and simple truth.

I agree 100%

 

[Kilo19]

Keep em, use em, fix em and prove what good American quality is

 

[Saddle Tramp]

A few things to add…

Many of the Owners of Jeep (manufactures) were running on empty for much of Jeeps existence. In 1953 Willys was ailing from the recession of the Korean War and the launch of the failed Willys Aero so they were absorbed by Kaiser in 1953. Kaiser was a mega industrialist in its day and Jeep was a major factor in their rise but Henry Kaiser’s son Edgar was the CEO in 1968 and he wanted out of the vehicle business to concentrate on the company’s other holdings but he also didn’t want to completely turn loose of the cash flow that Jeep provided so he swung a deal with AMC where he got $10,000,000 in cash and a 25% stake in AMC; this left Kaiser in a position to take over AMC should things not go well however Edger swore he wouldn’t interfere and he didn’t. The deal was finalized in December of 1969. AMC was about broke after coughing up $10 mill cash to Kaiser leaving little money for retooling and development but I think they must have figured that Jeep would pull them out of trouble. The smart thing that AMC did was to quickly spin off the Military/Government side of the business by forming American General as a separate entity which we all know eventually lead to the Hummer. GM may have refined the Hummer for the general consumer market but I can’t give them any credit for vision.

In 1980 we were in a recession and AMC lost almost $200,000,000. (Yes I said almost 200 million dollars) This was caused by a few things that had occurred in 1979; the revolution in Iran (USA guy out, whack jobs in), the deregulation of the oil industry in the US, and President Carter announcing that he was planned to further reduce the level of US oil imports to force conservation and reduce energy consumption. All of this caused oil prices to skyrocket (more than doubling) and lead to panic amongst US consumers, hence the recession. The recession and AMC’s devastating losses forced AMC to sell controlling interest to Renault. Renault was owned by the French Government so now the Crown Jewel of the USA was controlled by the people we liberated in WWII largely due to the Jeep. (Ouch!)

If anything lead to the demise of the CJ other than Government regulations it would have to be the screw job CBS did on the CJ5 in 1980 with their report on how easy it was to make one roll. CBS took a CJ5 and drove it using servos (remote control, no real people inside the jeep) and made it roll on film, whipping up the public outcry and the Government safety do-gooders; and let’s not forget the lawyers, most important of which was Ralph Nader and his band of #%&. This is the reason we have wide track axles on the latter year CJs in an effort to stave off the negative press (and law suits) but by now the damage was done.

In the 1980s consumers weren’t just using CJs to hit the trail but they had become local runabouts and daily drivers however they still drove like jeeps. Cheap Japanese cars had flooded into the US market during the two oil shortages of the 1970s as they were fuel efficient but they were also a more comfortable ride than a CJ too. To compete with the comfort offered by the Japanese cars, AMC developed the YJ even though CJ7 sales had been reasonable. This also presented the opportunity to make the new vehicle more stable and less prone to roll than the CJ. The die was cast and the fate of the CJ was sealed.

AMC lost about $97,000,000 in 1986 which made them ripe for takeover pickings and Chrysler wanted the Jeep brand so they moved in; once again Jeep belonged to a truly American company with the French out. (Woo Hoo!) However in 1998 Daimler took control of Chrysler so the people that we beat in WWII once again largely due to the Jeep now owned our National treasure. (Double Ouch!!)

To me the Germans all but ruined Jeep (well the Wrangler anyway), stark dark interiors with uncomfortable seats, heck the KJ Wrangler is more like a Hummer than its CJ heritage; and don’t get me started on the decision to retire the I6 for the V6. (I’m not buying the “emission requirements” necessitated the retirement story.) Then there was the Commander; what was that all about? And now thanks to President Obama, Jeep is owned by the Italians (another group the Jeep help defeat in WWII - Triple Ouch!!!) and Obama gave Fiat 1.5 Billion tax payer dollars to take it off our hands due to Fiats so called "small car expertise”. Thanks to Obama we are now looking at Wranglers being built in Europe and China instead of the USA by American workers then exported to Europe and China.

I must stop here to avoid becoming unhinged with frustration. Don’t get me wrong I love Jeeps but I don’t see a new one in my stable until our Crown Jewel is returned to us here in the USA!

 

[PaRenegade]

Just a note. AMC had to spin off AM General before they could sell to Renault because a foreign company could not have contracts with the military, of which they currently had for the M151 mutts and the developing Hummer.

 

[Vvajk]

I almost wept reading this PaRenegade. Thanks for so eloquently stating the plain and simple truth.

Ditto here.

I think Chrysler has done about as decent a job as could be expected under today's regs and the circumstances. But that said, whenever I pass a newer Chrysler-built Jeep in my CJ7 I have to admit that I look down on that other Jeep with a slight amount of disdain and righteous indignation, and I hold my head a little higher knowing I'm driving a REAL Jeep.

 

[jdcaples]

When I pass any "Wrangler" and the driver waves, I wave back with a level of enthusiasm I know is less than effort I put in when I pass an AMC CJ5 or CJ7 .

The same is true if I pass 4 cyl flat fender Jeep... The wave back is tempered by a little shame, like I sold out, like I'm driving a distant cousin that went off to the big city and left the family farm, a struggling clan behind.

... but I got my learners permit in 1980, and I was born just after fenders grew curves so I cut myself a little slack.

-Jon

 

[tjmons]

Ditto here.

I think Chrysler has done about as decent a job as could be expected under today's regs and the circumstances. But that said, whenever I pass a newer Chrysler-built Jeep in my CJ7 I have to admit that I look down on that other Jeep with a slight amount of disdain and righteous indignation, and I hold my head a little higher knowing I'm driving a REAL Jeep.

We all know the CJ is the real Jeep.

 

[PaRenegade]

The same is true if I pass 4 cyl flat fender Jeep... The wave back is tempered by a little shame, like I sold out, like I'm driving a distant cousin that went off to the big city and left the family farm, a struggling clan behind.
-Jon

No need to feel shame. The flat fender is a true Jeep as well. Not a cousin, more like a parent or grandparent. It's still a CJ from the same lineage. A CJ is just more comfortable.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

No need to feel shame. The flat fender is a true Jeep as well. Not a cousin, more like a parent or grandparent. It's still a CJ from the same lineage.

Amen!

 

[mmt]

Just a note. AMC had to spin off AM General before they could sell to Renault because a foreign company could not have contracts with the military

Off topic. (I know I know) As a vet this always burned my .Beretta of Italy builds our standard side arm the M9 and FN of Belgium build our medium machine gun the M240.

Sorry I am venting....