CJ-7 Frame

[mriplaybass]

Have located a few more locally one only 50 minutes away.
He gave a price raw and Blasted and Powder coated.
What are the Opinions on powder coating a Frame?

IMHO, powder coating is great if you are all done with any frame modifications. Powder coating is done by electrostaticly charging the metal which then attracts the powder particles. The excess powder is then allowed to fall away and be collected. The powder still clinging to the metal due to electrostatic attraction is baked and basically melts onto the metal. Powder can be blown into boxed in areas if there are sufficient openings to do so as the powder is attracted to any clean charged metal. The problem with powder coating the inside of a frame is, unless all the rust is removed, it will just fall off like painting over flaking rust. What I have seen done to rusty frames is the entire frame has to be chemically treated, typically by immersing in large tanks of chemicals.
If someone is selling you a fully powder coated frame and claims the coating is inside and out, I expect the frame is several thousand dollars. If it's not, my guess is that the internal rust was just coated over and it won't last.

 

[45frank]

OK Drove what seemed like all day looking at frames. I went with the one for $400.00. I scraped, banged and wire brushes as much as I could. We agreed on this price as long as the frame looks as good after the entire tub is off, motor is out and the skid plate is removed.
From what I seen this was the worst of the rust.

 

[45frank]

IMHO, powder coating is great if you are all done with any frame modifications. Powder coating is done by electrostaticly charging the metal which then attracts the powder particles. The excess powder is then allowed to fall away and be collected. The powder still clinging to the metal due to electrostatic attraction is baked and basically melts onto the metal. Powder can be blown into boxed in areas if there are sufficient openings to do so as the powder is attracted to any clean charged metal. The problem with powder coating the inside of a frame is, unless all the rust is removed, it will just fall off like painting over flaking rust. What I have seen done to rusty frames is the entire frame has to be chemically treated, typically by immersing in large tanks of chemicals.
If someone is selling you a fully powder coated frame and claims the coating is inside and out, I expect the frame is several thousand dollars. If it's not, my guess is that the internal rust was just coated over and it won't last.

I went and talked with the one that was to be powder coated and was a little disappointed. His frames were much worse than mine but he repairs them. He explained the inside and out are sand blasted then they spray the powder coating on the inside and outside then cook it.

 

[mtnwhlr]

He explained the inside and out are sand blasted then they spray the powder coating on the inside and outside then cook it.

I would to see how he does that.

 

[shum8]

No kiddin - I can see spraying the powder inside, but how the heck does one media blast the inside of the frame???


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[mriplaybass]

Sounds like he is over stating his product. As I said, the only way of removing rust from the inside of a box frame is by chemical dipping the entire frame. When I sand blast a frame, I can only get in maybe 12" or so from each end. That's not sand blasting the inside of the frame as the seller seems to think!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

The pics you just posted look good. Looks like you did just fine.
LG

 

[shum8]

^^^^^ Looks just fine. That one will clean up nicely...

 

[45frank]

May be doing somethings a little backwards since I don't have my newer frame yet. When I have the frame off I will be replacing wires and adding a ground block because wires are just run everyplace because of the fiberglass tub.
I do have two electric issues, as I said earlier everything seems to work, lights, blinkers break lights and so on. But when I turn on the headlights the left blinker light on the dash comes on, yet even though the blinkers work it don't blink when the left blinker blinks if the lights are on or not.
Second the neutral safety switch don't work. You can start the Jeep in any gear. I did find wires near the Transmission linkage that was burnt up or just flattened from rubbing. It's a flat connector with maybe four wires.
Any opinions?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

GND issues are the #1 electrical gremlin on CJ's.
Try a new flasher unit.
LG

 

[45frank]

Don't want to start another thread but I'm trying to make a list of everything I need for the frame change, BUT since I'm removing the body which is a 20 yr old or so 4 WD Hardware Fiberglass i may as well do some work on it.
The under carriage is not bad after cleaning some of it up yesterday but i want to paint it. There are a few spots where it's starting to get a little hairy, not coming apart at all.
What do I use for paint? This will be for the undercarriage only.
Also there are a few holes I will be wanting to fill, some as big as 1" most small 1/4"-3/8"? No cracks that I notices yet.
Thanks
I don't want to start a Build Thread until I at least get the frame here on sight.
My list so far.
Motor and Transmission mounts
Leaf spring bushings
Brake and Transmission lines
Fuel lines
Frame Mounts
Wire
Por15
Sand
?????????

 

[shum8]

.......but I'm trying to make a list of everything I need for the frame change

Once you finish the list, leave room at the bottom - there's always a few more things you'll need. Oh, and get a bottle of anti-seize and use it on the hardware you put back on.

The under carriage is not bad after cleaning some of it up yesterday but i want to paint it. There are a few spots where it's starting to get a little hairy, not coming apart at all. What do I use for paint? This will be for the undercarriage only.

When you say undercarriage - you mean everything under the Jeep minus the frame, yes? As for paint - depends on how much work you wanna throw at it. At the upper end, strip, degrease, two part automotive primer and paint. You could remove all loose stuff, degrease, then hit it with POR15 then Chassis black. I went the lazy route. Remove all loose paint and any rust, degrease well, and hit it with Rustoleum primer and several coats of Rustoleum satin black. If it chips I'll just hit it with more paint.

Also there are a few holes I will be wanting to fill, some as big as 1" most small 1/4"-3/8"? No cracks that I notices yet.

Thanks

Bondo makes a fiberglass repair kit - the small one comes with resin and fiberglass cloth, the larger one come with fiberglass mat rather than the cloth. If you are just filling small holes that were drilled and you don't need em, I just taped off the underside of the hole and just filled it with the resin (mixed with hardener of course). For the larger holes you might wanna thin around the holes maybe a half inch or so on the bottom side, resin in a couple layers of the cloth, then once that sets lay in several layers of the cloth to fit in the hole and resin them in. If it's gonna be a structural repair, all layers of the cloth should overlap the existing glass.......

I don't want to start a Build Thread until I at least get the frame here on sight

Ahhh, go ahead and start one - you're gonna swap it anyway, so go ahead and start the thread, then you can chronicle your progress, including the frame search saga!!

My list so far.

Motor and Transmission mounts

Leaf spring bushings

Brake and Transmission lines

Fuel lines

Frame Mounts

Wire

Por15

Sand

If the sand is for the media blasting, don't use it. Silica dust is bad for you and anyone else that breathes it. Use coal slag, glass beads, anything but sand.




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[45frank]

Once you finish the list, leave room at the bottom - there's always a few more things you'll need. Oh, and get a bottle of anti-seize and use it on the hardware you put back on.

Just thinking about it and the list keeps getting longer!


When you say undercarriage - you mean everything under the Jeep minus the frame, yes? As for paint - depends on how much work you wanna throw at it. At the upper end, strip, degrease, two part automotive primer and paint. You could remove all loose stuff, degrease, then hit it with POR15 then Chassis black. I went the lazy route. Remove all loose paint and any rust, degrease well, and hit it with Rustoleum primer and several coats of Rustoleum satin black. If it chips I'll just hit it with more paint.

Yes I meant the under part of the fiberglass tub, fenders and hood. Looks like it was white at one time after a cleaning yesterday. Didn't know rustolium was good for fiberglass? I have no idea but I was thinking epoxy paint.


Bondo makes a fiberglass repair kit - the small one comes with resin and fiberglass cloth, the larger one come with fiberglass mat rather than the cloth. If you are just filling small holes that were drilled and you don't need em, I just taped off the underside of the hole and just filled it with the resin (mixed with hardener of course). For the larger holes you might wanna thin around the holes maybe a half inch or so on the bottom side, resin in a couple layers of the cloth, then once that sets lay in several layers of the cloth to fit in the hole and resin them in. If it's gonna be a structural repair, all layers of the cloth should overlap the existing glass.......

Nothing structural just hole everyplace.


Ahhh, go ahead and start one - you're gonna swap it anyway, so go ahead and start the thread, then you can chronicle your progress, including the frame search saga!!




If the sand is for the media blasting, don't use it. Silica dust is bad for you and anyone else that breathes it. Use coal slag, glass beads, anything but sand.

Thanks I will look at these products, the last thing I sandblasted was a trailer frame.


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Yeah I may start one. My list is getting long in the dollar too.

 

[shum8]

As for painting the underside of the fiberglass stuff - rust isn't a worry, so as long as all the grease is gone, rustoleum would stick fine. Two part epoxy paint would be tougher and last longer, but is also more expensive. I'm not doing a full restoration, so I went with the rustoleum and will touch up as needed. No matter what paint you choose, make sure it's grease and oil free.


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[shum8]

As for painting the underside of the fiberglass stuff - rust isn't a worry, so as long as all the grease is gone, rustoleum would stick fine. Two part epoxy paint would be tougher and last longer, but is also more expensive. I'm not doing a full restoration, so I went with the rustoleum and will touch up as needed. No matter what paint you choose, make sure it's grease and oil free.


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[teddywags]

Very noooob here! So, feel free to ridicule me and call me names for asking stupid questions, that's how I learn the best.

I just purchased a 1985 CJ7 and will have to replace the frame (and 80% of the rest of the vehicle) before I get to do anything fun in it. It was discussed (briefly) earlier in this thread purchasing one of the ThrottleDown Kustoms CJ7 frames frames, and although I think spending $500 in "handling" charges is pretty ridiculous, I want a very solid starting point for my build.

Has anyone seen/used/built one of those frames out?
Any suggestions/thoughts about the hot tip galvanizing (and painting black before the build)?
Thoughts on ordering with the "rear bumper receiver hitch tire carrier" included?

In the end, I have no issues with canvasing the local junk yards and going dumpster diving, but I want my frame to have zero issues and I don't mind spending the money to make that happen. Thoughts?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

GOOGLE, really is your friend.
Frames - CJ7 1976-1986

LG

 

[45frank]

Very noooob here! So, feel free to ridicule me and call me names for asking stupid questions, that's how I learn the best.

I just purchased a 1985 CJ7 and will have to replace the frame (and 80% of the rest of the vehicle) before I get to do anything fun in it. It was discussed (briefly) earlier in this thread purchasing one of the ThrottleDown Kustoms CJ7 frames frames, and although I think spending $500 in "handling" charges is pretty ridiculous, I want a very solid starting point for my build.

Has anyone seen/used/built one of those frames out?
Any suggestions/thoughts about the hot tip galvanizing (and painting black before the build)?
Thoughts on ordering with the "rear bumper receiver hitch tire carrier" included?

In the end, I have no issues with canvasing the local junk yards and going dumpster diving, but I want my frame to have zero issues and I don't mind spending the money to make that happen. Thoughts?

As rare as the frames are here in WNC they are out there. I found about 4-5 priced from $125.00 needing minimal work, a crack or bent rear bumper. Not rust related. For me welding is out of the question due to a defibrillator/pacemaker so I had to go with the better one.The one I found is about an hour and a half from me and was $400.00 with only surface rust. Is the inside rusted? Sure. But I did beat it with a sledge and scraped with a 3" wide mason chiseland wire brush. I will be cleaning the inside and out and sealing with either POR15 or Eastwoods.
Paying $2500.00 for a frame just isn't for me. I could use the saving for other things.
Personally I wouldn't buy from someone who advertises $0.00 shipping but $500.00 for shipping. That is a Con!

 

[45frank]

One last question here about the frame itself. The gentleman called and said it will be bare and I could pick it up this weekend which won't happen, I'm not driving on MD weekend.
Anyway my CJ7 is a 1980 with the 258ci engine and an automatic Transmission . Is there anything different between the 1980 and the 1977 frame that will need welding or moving? The 77 had a AMC 304 with a three speed manual. Will the skid plate and motor just bolt on?
I asked him for his best price on the AMC 304 with the Transmission and Transfer Case and he wanted $900.00 just for the motor. Thought it was high but I see the V-8 is getting harder to find.

 

[007]

A $900 AMC 304 better be clean, in something, running, leak down tested etc.

A AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l is a great engine. Not a lot of difference between it and a AMC 304 when the rubber meets the road.


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