Help identifying a clutch and flywheel.

[Zech]

I am in the process of changing out the clutch due to a horrible chatter and grating sound when letting it out. Pulled everything apart and the throwout bearing was completely destroyed. Everything else looks ok, but I figured I would replace everything while I have it all apart. I can not find the clutch the goes with this flywheel? This is a buick 231 conversion and the motor casting id's it from 1979. The flywheel is raised in the middle. The machine shop says he has never seen a flywheel like this but looked it up in a catalog that Buick did have raised and flat wheels in 1979. I have struck out all over the place and not sure if I need to find a different flywheel and just start from scratch? This jeep has been rigged together to no end so It wouldn't surprise me if this was something he pulled off anything he could find in a junk yard. Thanks for any help.
Zech I posted some pics of the flywheel and the pressure plate with the surface the clutch disc rides on. Its recessed into the pressure plate.

 

[Hedgehog]

I put a 231 in an '80 CJ5 . Was a great engine and I liked it a lot. I used a Buick bell housing and was surprised at thew small number of clutch options were available. Even those that said they would fit didn't. Ended up using a plain Jane stock Buick clutch set up.

Fly wheels used to be easy to find. If I were you, I'd look for the most common parts available and buy them. A flywheel should be inexpensie enough. Get a used one, have it faced, possibly put on a new ring gear, get a common clutch and ...... wait a minute, make sure to get the RIGHT clutch disk and pilot bearing. You could have a Buick clutch with a ford or Jeep or any number of other clutch plate. Make sure you have get the right throw out bearing. ....... See, this is easy as pie.

 

[mstar]

I am not familiar with the flywheel you have but I do have some experience with the Dauntless Buick 225 V6 225 clutch and T-14 Transmission .Most of these components except flywheel are the same as small block chevy (SBC) and are available at most parts stores. clutch disc should be 10" dia. with 1 1/8" hub.The pressure plate is the tricky part as it has to match the raised flywheel.
The Dauntless Buick 225 V6 flywheel is the opposite and is recessed so no help there.
If the local parts store can't match up the parts I would find a clutch specialty rebuild shop in your area.The TO bearing is also standard chevy that comes in 3 or 4 different length collars.Should be able to match up with the old one.Pilot shaft bushing may be specific to buick/T-14 so measure.Advance Adaptor or Novack Adaptors will have info for you.
T/A Performance (buick specialists) also may help with I D of flywheel.
Should be a clutch shop in Seattle area. Good luck, Mike

 

[mstar]

Did a little research for you and found that AA should be able to supply parts or info on your current setup.I don't remember if the 231 even-fire engine is internal or external balance so if you think you want to spring for a flywheel you might check that.I don't see any reason not to use the flywheel you have and replace the pressure plate/ disc(10.4"-10 spline 1 1/8" dia.) and T O bearing and pilot shaft bushing if needed.
I can tell you a steel flywheel will be spendy. mike

 

[Hedgehog]

I agree, use the flywheel you've got. That is unless as you wrote and the clutch and clutch disk are difficult to find. I'm all about the K.I.S.S. theory. You never know where you might blow a clutch and finding parts could be a factor in when you get home.

mstar is correct, most of the parts will be standard Buick/GM components, but do pay attention to the ones I mentioned. They might very well be mixed and matched to work for your conversion. For instance, the clutch disk will be the same diameter as a Buick version, but the center spline will be designed for the T-14 Transmission . the pilot bearing will be a bastard with a Buick OD, T-14 ID and the length required for both the Buick and the T-14 . The throw out bearing might be for either the Transmission or the Buick clutch. When I did my conversion I used a T-18 Ford truck Transmission , but had the .... I forget the name .... Transmission bearing retainer, turned down to match a Buick throw out bearing. This really isn't difficult, you just need to pay attention to the possible differences.

 

[tarry99]

I am in the process of changing out the clutch due to a horrible chatter and grating sound when letting it out. Pulled everything apart and the throwout bearing was completely destroyed. Everything else looks ok, but I figured I would replace everything while I have it all apart. I can not find the clutch the goes with this flywheel? This is a buick 231 conversion and the motor casting id's it from 1979. The flywheel is raised in the middle. The machine shop says he has never seen a flywheel like this but looked it up in a catalog that Buick did have raised and flat wheels in 1979. I have struck out all over the place and not sure if I need to find a different flywheel and just start from scratch? This jeep has been rigged together to no end so It wouldn't surprise me if this was something he pulled off anything he could find in a junk yard. Thanks for any help.
Zech I posted some pics of the flywheel and the pressure plate with the surface the clutch disc rides on. Its recessed into the pressure plate.

There is a difference between the early Odd fired 225 Buick externally balanced and the later 79 Even Fired internally balanced 231 Buick.

Mike is correct call either Novak or Advanced Adapters or TA Performance and they have a Centerforce clutch setup for that engine, you can also go on the Centerforce website as they use to offer 3 different clutch packages for that combination..........

I believe Jeg's and Summit also carry the same parts...........I hope your machine shop friend grinds a flywheel better than he does looking up parts.

 

[Hedgehog]

When I did mine .... granted that was 24 years ago .... several clutch pressure plates that were supposed to fit, did not fit. A little care wouldn't hurt here, I'd buy locally so it's easy to return.

 

[mstar]

Good info and follow up guys. Unfortunately the OP seems to be AWOL and could supply a little more detailed info . Agreed that a parts store with experience in classic /older vehicles would be a big help to him.
mike

 

[Zech]

Thanks guys, I work wierd hours so it hard for me to keep up. I agree with keeping it simple. I want to use this flywheel. the guys at the local parts shop have ordered 5 different clutch kits for me and none fit. I know the disc, pilot bearing and TO bearing size, I can not find the pressure plate which is pretty corroded after looking at it a little closer. The pressure plate assembly is the part I can not find anywhere. They list 4 different kits for a buick of this year and none fit. I thought what the heck, lets try a Jeep I6 clutch kit since this was the stock motor for this jeep. Didn't fit either. The disc is right everytime but pressure plate is always for a flat flywheel. I emailed dial-a-clutch (sp?) to see if they have a way to id this pressure plate. There isn't a single marking on it anywhere. I dont want buy a a new flywheel for it unless I can find one used. From what Ive gathered they are around 400$ plus it would need to be balanced, then find a clutch kit and remeasure for the TO bearing. Thats a bigger headache than I am willing to deal with and think I would have to cut my loses. Thanks for any tips.
Zech

 

[Zech]

What Other Detailed Info Do You Need Mstar? I Cant Get My Phone To Stop CapitalIzing Everything. Thats Annoying. TAperformance Is Closed Today. They Are Next To Try and See What They Can Come Up With But From Their Webpage All Their Flywheels Are Flat. Poking Around Earlycj5 Forum Ive Seen A Couple Posts From 60S Era Cjs That Had Pics Of Thi Style Flywheel.

 

[mstar]

Hang in there man!! Is it possible to have your pressure plate rebuilt.
I'm sure there is a clutch shop in Seattle with S.I.R. and other stuff
That could service that part for you.Agreed it would be nice to know exactly what part you have. mike

 

[mstar]

I wonder if this company could meet your needs?
www.cascadefriction.com

 

[Zech]

Advanced Adapters TalkS About Different Flywheels On Their Page. They Look Like They May Have The Solution. Going To Call TheM First Thing Monday Morning.

 

[Zech]

that Place Has A Shop Right Up The Street From Me. I ThinK I Will Just Run Up There Monday MorningAnd See What They Can Do With That Pressure Plate. Thanks!

 

[Hedgehog]

I have purchased a couple flywheels, all used, all were resurfaced without trouble, non were anywhere near $400. The last one I bought cost ~$50. I wonder if the flywheel you've got could be turned down flat? Probably not, the weight loss would be considerable.

 

[mstar]

i have purchased a couple flywheels, all used, all were resurfaced without trouble, non were anywhere near $400. The last one i bought cost ~$50. I wonder if the flywheel you've got could be turned down flat? Probably not, the weight loss would be considerable.

buick ?

 

[Zech]

Struck out 2 for 2 this mornings. Been told twice now they couldn't help me. ya, the buick flywheels are 360$+ from what I can find. I can't find any used ones so far.

 

[Hedgehog]

The 231 was rather common when I got mine. From what I'm hearing they aren't as available as they once were. Bummer. Are there any others that will fit? Chevy? GM?

 

[Zech]

Ya, from what I have read about the Buick 231, it was one of the most common engines ever produced. I would think that would make it easier to find parts. Nope. I had a crushed oil pan. No one sells one except for TAperformance, its chome plated and 155$. I had to cut the bottom of the pan off and reweld a different bottom on. I am striking out all over the place for parts for this thing. every shop I call is like "man I love those motors" and they proceed to tell me the parts I am looking for a not made anymore. Super frustrating. Way more of a headache than I thought. Its to the point where I am unwilling to deal with anymore "modified" parts by the previous owner. If I can't find a clutch for this thing, its going to the local Jeep wreckers. I am used to vintage VWs where you could find parts like crazy and even had your choice of country of origin.

 

[Hedgehog]

Zech - Talked to the local go to JEep shop here in town, Willy's Works, Rob says that you have a car flywheel. He said that the Dauntless Buick 225 V6 flywheel is neutrally balanced, even fire or odd fire it doesn't matter, so you don't need to worry about having a properly balanced wheel for your 231 and a 225 Fly Wheel would work well for your application. As a matter of fact, the 225 flywheel is a heavy weight and carries a bunch of mass which aids in "apparent" low end torque. I.E. it would be a great addition to your Jeep. In addition to that clutchs are available (one being a 10 1/2" kit from Power Torque # MU5472-1). He has a few used 225 Fly Wheels for ~$100 each, naturally shipping would be an additional cost. You can trust Rob, when he says the wheels are in good condition they are. If you want to talk to him his number is (520) 888-5082.