Help me shape my plan for my CJ7

[Old Dog]

Optima is hanging on by the name it made for itself before the move to Mexico. Ive had good luck with the Sears and Napa brand batteries. Interstate makes some descent ones as well.

I think Pete got it right.
I have a red top that is 10 years old (in my car) and a yellow top that is 6 years old, (in my cj with a winch that gets used, plus in sits for weeks sometimes)
both still work fine. The Red top I bought 2 years ago (for my truck) gives me fits.
Optima's are hard to charge, you either have to trickle them or connect them to another battery with jumper cables and than put the charger on the non-Optima battery. At least that has worked for me.

 

[Old Dog]

I went 350 chevy because parts are easy to come by no matter where you are. But as I said before it likes it's gas, but probably no more than any other V8.

 

[Petescj]

Keep your Jeep, Jeep. It is a shame to castrate another AMC Jeep by stuffing a SBC between the rails. (As always I acknowledge all the SBC accolades without argument, but they belong in a hot rod not a CJ.) In my part of the country the SBC lowers the value of a CJ but most importantly we as CJ owners are charged with preserving what is left. If you must cut up a jeep to satisfy you needs pick up a YJ Wrangler and whack away.

Ive been struggling with this alot lately. Ive felt the same way you do for most of my time behind the wheel of my Cjs. What Im asking is where the line is drawn? Your 401 wasnt ever an option in a Cj. Niether was your Scout Dana 300 , but both have made your modified Cj perform the way you want.

I dont think I'll be happy with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l my Limited came with and it needs rebuilt from the start anyway. I want fuel injection. A 401 is out of my price range done right. Im using a SM420 anyway so it would be a smoother transition. Im using a YJ tub as well. It can be a total cluster **** when you purpose build a Cj.


This wasnt meant as an attack , just pointing some stuff out. Personally I love when you answer alot of posts. I just read them and say "Dont have anything to add".

 

[Hedgehog]

An age old problem addressed from different directions. Fewer and fewer CJ's and older Jeeps are still here today so they should be preserved. But a Jeep isn't meant to be looked at, it's meant to be used and used the way it was meant to be used. I guess, I'd wager, by percentage, there are more old Jeeps still on the road than there are old cars. How many 1965 cars do you see on the road .... how many Jeeps? I actually fear the day when a Jeep becomes an actual purists collector item like the Toyote Land Cruiser became. Baiscally, if your not a doctor or a lawyer the F series land cruiser might as well be a Charger or an Road Runner. Fun to remember, impossible to atually own.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

Ive been struggling with this alot lately. Ive felt the same way you do for most of my time behind the wheel of my Cjs. What Im asking is where the line is drawn? Your 401 wasnt ever an option in a Cj. Niether was your Scout Dana 300 , but both have made your modified Cj perform the way you want.

I dont think I'll be happy with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l my Limited came with and it needs rebuilt from the start anyway. I want fuel injection. A 401 is out of my price range done right. Im using a SM420 anyway so it would be a smoother transition. Im using a YJ tub as well. It can be a total cluster **** when you purpose build a Cj.


This wasnt meant as an attack , just pointing some stuff out. Personally I love when you answer alot of posts. I just read them and say "Dont have anything to add".

I know this is a hard issue. Yes my CJ is not stock. The AMC 401 is still an OEM Jeep part, so is the Dana 44 rear end. The jeep came with a T-150 but now has a CJ T-18 . The Scout Dana 300 of course is not OEM but everything is a direct bolt in with NO adaptors required for installation. (I still have all of the original parts siting on the shelf.)

I get building your jeep to fit your needs and tastes but I mean what I say about preserving what is left too. We all love CJs or we wouldn’t be so passionate about them but they are disappearing so when I read on a board about someone scoring a good CJ being ready to break out the sawzall I cringe.

 

[Hedgehog]

This is what I'd rather see written:

I have a ford with an increadably strong frame and drive train With big wheels and tires. But I would really like a Jeep. .....

Then see a long technical write up on how he adapted an aftermarket Jeep body to a Ford./Chevy/Dodge truck frame. How many write ups have you seen where they take a perfectly good Jeep, strip the guts of the Jeep away to replace them with what is considered to be tougher/stronger parts from other vehicles. I'd like to see someone pony up and accept that this is what they are going to do at the beginning of their build. I would almost be willing to bet when all is said and done it would be a less expensive and time consuming build.

Occasionally I find myself asking, when is a hard core rock crawling Jeep really a Jeep, Answer, NEVER. Sure there might what's left of be Jeep sheet metal on the thing, but it's not a Jeep.

Sorry, this has turned out to be one of those unintentional message board drifting topic threads. Building an expedition Jeep is what we are about here.

By-the-way, I really need to ready up on what an expedition Jeep really is. From what I gather it needs to be very road worthy and able to get good to excellent mileage. While at the same time show the ability to handle rough going, but maybe not the very roughest going. The expedition traveler might not be LOOKING for rough going, but be able to handle some to get to the final destination. The best expedition vehicle will have parts common enough to get almost anywhere and be easily repaired in the field. ....... sounds like a land cruiser to me....

 

[Petescj]

The best expedition vehicle will have parts common enough to get almost anywhere and be easily repaired in the field. ....... sounds like a land cruiser to me....

Id put everything in this thread on an XJ with a rooftop tent and throw in one of those ARB mini fridges. I think Im just going to make everyone happy. My Limited will probably be Chevy powered. Vickis Laredo will be all Jeep but stay on 35s and the Laredo options are going to be repro's not NOS. Then when I move out of the rust belt my Scrambler will be a total Resto to factory.

 

[cj7inthetwigs]

Exactly what pete said. Having only one that is all original, I can't go crazy. However, if I had another cj, well there would be no limits. Heck, I wouldn't turn down a wrangler for a second jeep but would have to remove the deformed headlights.

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[stoney bones]

Well, with all that said and considered..I should just start pricing out options for a better comparison.


If I were to stay with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l and did the 4.0 head swap, and some other engine mods combined with the skinnier 10" wide tire and appropriate gears, where would I be at with horse power and torque? how about an MPG estimate for on road driving?

Gas mileage is important. I do want this geared slightly more off road than on. On road I would like to be able to go maybe 60 at least without revving too high. By expedition I mean mainly making my own path. My goal is to have this as an emergency vehicle in the rare case we have to get somewhere and travel by normal routes is not possible. Hopefully something like that never happens so I see myself putting it on a trailer and taking it up north to ride trails for the weekend. And making trails and obstacles on my property to test her emergency preparedness

 

[stoney bones]

Also, I have just committed to building an organic farm on my property.

Would there be any reason why I couldnt use this to pull around trailers on the farm? If I stayed with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l modded, and proper gearing, how much weight could I realistically expect to pull?

If it is possible I would like to rebuild a single axle military trailer to pull some more gear along on trips as well.

Yes, I do realize I need a tractor, but it would be nice to get even more use out of the CJ!

 

[cj7inthetwigs]

Not sure how much weight you plan on pulling. My AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l and auto tranny pulled mtn stone all over my property until the receiver broke off at the welds…. Cheap tube bumper!

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[Saddle Tramp]

Also, I have just committed to building an organic farm on my property.

Would there be any reason why I couldnt use this to pull around trailers on the farm? If I stayed with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l modded, and proper gearing, how much weight could I realistically expect to pull?

If it is possible I would like to rebuild a single axle military trailer to pull some more gear along on trips as well.

Yes, I do realize I need a tractor, but it would be nice to get even more use out of the CJ!

Jeeps have been used on the farm since the beginning. In fact they use to offer a farm package with a three point hitch. Just keep the gearing in the differentials tall for the street and go for the T-18 granny low (6.32 version) with your Dana 300 . If low isn’t low enough for the field then add the Teralow kit to the Transfer Case .

 

[HackFabrication]

I am all over the T-18 w/granny, terra low kit for my Dana 300 and twinstickin' it...we will consider that decided.

The T-18 is a heavy duty Transmission , and shifts accordingly. Although they were available in both close and wide ratios, the most common is the Ford T-18 with the wide ratio 6.32 (un-synchronized) first gear. You might also consider the NP435 or SM465 as they both are heavy duty 4 speeds. Of the three, the Ford T-18 would be the easiest to adapt behind the Jeep I-6. Lots of information on how to do this, and what parts are needed. As you know, Novak, is a great source of knowledge.

All things considered, you will need to adapt the T-18 (or NP435/SM465) to the Dana 300 anyway. Alternatively, I would be thinking NV3550 (or AX15) behind the I-6. The Overdrive will satisfy you need for fuel economy, and the low gearing can be gained from the 4:1 Tera kit. Wanna fire breathing V8? NV4500 in a manual. Although However, you might want to consider an automatic with Overdrive : 700R4 as an example. I wouldn't dis the autos, they have their benefits.

Your stock axles, with some minor upgrades 'should' be able to survive with the 33" tires, unless you are heavy on the skinny pedal with a healthy V8. However, with narrow track axles, you will have tire/spring interference at full lock, and will need to adjust your stops. Which will increase the turning radius. Your front Dana 30 has 5 bolt hubs, which should also be upgraded from the stock not-so-premium Warns, to a premium hub. I have MileMarker premiums on my CJ.

Common axle ratio in 80-86 CJ's was 2.73, with lower (higher numeric) ratios optional. Your CJ may be geared to high (low numeric). Changing to an Overdrive Transmission will allow you to run a lower gear ratio (higher numeric), and still retain decent cruising RPMs.

Lots more, but for now...

 

[stoney bones]

The T-18 is a heavy duty Transmission , and shifts accordingly. Although they were available in both close and wide ratios, the most common is the Ford T-18 with the wide ratio 6.32 (un-synchronized) first gear. You might also consider the NP435 or SM465 as they both are heavy duty 4 speeds. Of the three, the Ford T-18 would be the easiest to adapt behind the Jeep I-6. Lots of information on how to do this, and what parts are needed. As you know, Novak, is a great source of knowledge.

All things considered, you will need to adapt the T-18 (or NP435/SM465) to the Dana 300 anyway. Alternatively, I would be thinking NV3550 (or AX15) behind the I-6. The Overdrive will satisfy you need for fuel economy, and the low gearing can be gained from the 4:1 Tera kit. Wanna fire breathing V8? NV4500 in a manual. Although However, you might want to consider an automatic with Overdrive : 700R4 as an example. I wouldn't dis the autos, they have their benefits.

Your stock axles, with some minor upgrades 'should' be able to survive with the 33" tires, unless you are heavy on the skinny pedal with a healthy V8. However, with narrow track axles, you will have tire/spring interference at full lock, and will need to adjust your stops. Which will increase the turning radius. Your front Dana 30 has 5 bolt hubs, which should also be upgraded from the stock not-so-premium Warns, to a premium hub. I have MileMarker premiums on my CJ.

Common axle ratio in 80-86 CJ's was 2.73, with lower (higher numeric) ratios optional. Your CJ may be geared to high (low numeric). Changing to an Overdrive Transmission will allow you to run a lower gear ratio (higher numeric), and still retain decent cruising RPMs.

Lots more, but for now...

thanks for that info.











Onto the next topic.....differentials and gearing. Lets assume for now I will be staying with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l , 4.0 head swap, other minor engine mods, T-18 with granny low from novak, Dana 300 twin stick with terra low, 33" x 10.5" mud terrains......

I want to stay narrow track. I know that. What I dont know is, should I go to the 1 piece axle for my AMC20 , and truss the housing....or change to a new diff all together? If change, which one?

Could a Dana 44 easily and practically be shortened to narrow track width? Is something like that even advisable?

With all this considered...what gearing? For this please think farm vehicle and expedition....i dont give a about on road except wanting to be able to do it safely up to at least 55 mph without revving the out of it. I care about fuel efficiency since range is important..but not at the expense of capability.

 

[Petescj]

Onto the next topic.....differentials and gearing. Lets assume for now I will be staying with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l , 4.0 head swap, other minor engine mods, T-18 with granny low from novak, Dana 300 twin stick with terra low, 33" x 10.5" mud terrains......

I want to stay narrow track. I know that. What I dont know is, should I go to the 1 piece axle for my AMC20 , and truss the housing....or change to a new diff all together? If change, which one?

Could a Dana 44 easily and practically be shortened to narrow track width? Is something like that even advisable?

With all this considered...what gearing? For this please think farm vehicle and expedition....i dont give a about on road except wanting to be able to do it safely up to at least 55 mph without revving the out of it. I care about fuel efficiency since range is important..but not at the expense of capability.

If staying with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l Id put in the 1 piece axles truss it and weld the tubes. If you have thoughts of swapping that motor out though Id look for a Ford 8.8 before trying to narrow a Dana 44 . The 8.8 would still have stock component you can obtain easily over your custom axle Dana 44 . Gearing is tough since it will effect the overall fuel economy. Since you already stated youd have a T-18 with a Dana 300 4 to 1 kit Id say 3.54 to 3.73s to save a little fuel. Normally Id go 4.10s - 4.56 with a Cj like yours.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

Here is an RPM/tire size chart that may help with the R&P choices:

http://www.ramblerman.com/blazer/geartabl.htm

 

[Petescj]

The 10 Commandments of Modifying an Overland Vehicle - Resources - ExPo: Adventure and Overland Travel Enthusiasts

 

[stoney bones]

The 10 Commandments of Modifying an Overland Vehicle - Resources - ExPo: Adventure and Overland Travel Enthusiasts

Thanks for the link, lots of good info.

Except it has me thinking the CJ is not the best choice for an "overland" vehicle..I say that due to its extreme lack of storage space.

No roof racks recommended...the self recovery gear alone will take up the whole back seat area...hmmm just might have to be a farm and play vehicle instead.


One issue I am having is finding a reputable shop to do work. The last place that did my suspension kind of did a half *** job.

 

[Petescj]

Except it has me thinking the CJ is not the best choice for an "overland" vehicle..I say that due to its extreme lack of storage space.

No roof racks recommended...the self recovery gear alone will take up the whole back seat area.

Thats what made me mention the Xj. Theres alot more room especially if you get rid of the back seat. My camping gear takes up the whole rear seat area stacked higher than it should be. Im not buying an Xj though. I had thought about a roof rack but my Cj is high enough on 35s to

• A. Make it a pain in the butt to get gear up and down from there.
• B. Change my center of gravity enough to cause a rollover itself depending on the wieght.

This year Im using one of those reciever racks in the rear bumper to alleviate some of the problem. My long term fix is a "Cj trailer". I'll be using the back half of a CJ7 tub along with a AMC20 axle and a custom frame to make it. If I still find myself needing room after that I'll add a rack on top of the trailer.

 

[Hedgehog]

........ Can anybody say "Land Cruiser" or a Scrambler.

Peter - I'm following your line of thinking, a rear receiver rack with an additional FRONT receiver rack. Problem, approach and departure clearance will suffer. Fortunately the country I'm on will be relatively flat. For a traveler, a receiver rack modified to be raised up about mid vehicle height with a hinge would work well on a CJ type vehicle.