Ideas to Build Dune and Mudder Jeep

[HemiMoparGuy1981]

Hey Guys,

I'm new here, and to jeeps and off roading in general, with the exception of quads. I'm looking into getting into a toy Jeep. It does not have to be street legal, I have a truck and trailers to haul it to the fun spots. I'm not sure which model would be best to look for and what mods to consider. I don't know if it is possible to build a multi-task jeep or if I should strongly consider building two seperate ones for different areas of fun. I've always wanted to build a big bad mudder, but have recently taken interest in building something for Silver Lake Sand Dunes. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thank You in Advance,
Eric

 

[Old Dog]

I'd look for a CJ7 for the longer wheelbase.
After that for either the mud or dunes I'd be doing a built sbc with an auto
and some big axles to handle the abuse your going to put them through.
I use to go the silver lake years ago it's a blast.

 

[HemiMoparGuy1981]

I'd look for a CJ7 for the longer wheelbase.
After that for either the mud or dunes I'd be doing a built sbc with an auto
and some big axles to handle the abuse your going to put them through.
I use to go the silver lake years ago it's a blast.

Cool, I never knew there were varying wheel bases. I don't have time just yet, but intend to browse the forums to read up on some good info.

Axles...besides Dana, I don't know of any heavy duty axles, are there good posts on here about them?

Not very crazy about the sbc mentioned, as you can probably tell by my screen name, even though I know they are cheapest and easiest to build and fix. But I'll look into comparble engines.

Anything about autos in these thigns I need to know? Is fairly stock ok, or should I be looking into B&M type stuff?

 

[csuengr]

Mud trucks make me laugh. Wanna know how many four wheel drive trucks I've pulled out of mud with a 30hp, 2 wheel drive tractor.


Anyway, mud and sand vehicles are built different. For mud you need tall tires with aggressive tread. For sand you need smaller, wide, sand paddle tires. Mud tires suck in sand, they just dig holes. The only thing in common is high horsepower and high wheel speed.

 

[Old Dog]

Yea Dana 44 's at the low end 60's would be even better. Stock cj axles
would be a Dana 30 in front and an AMC20 in the rear, neither one will
take alot of horse power.
I say chevy only like you said they are cheaper and there's more aftermarket adapters for them. But a hemi would be cool.

 

[HemiMoparGuy1981]

Mud trucks make me laugh. Wanna know how many four wheel drive trucks I've pulled out of mud with a 30hp, 2 wheel drive tractor.


Anyway, mud and sand vehicles are built different. For mud you need tall tires with aggressive tread. For sand you need smaller, wide, sand paddle tires. Mud tires suck in sand, they just dig holes. The only thing in common is high horsepower and high wheel speed.

HP is a little irrelavent when talking tractors, wouldn't you say, it's all abotu the torque and gearing. But yeah, I know what you mean. Basically you stated the only differences are tires, so would it be feasible to build one jeep kinda best for both worlds as far as ride height and such and just buy two sets of tires and swap them out depending on which fun spot I want to go to??


Thanks for the replies with good info BTW

Yea Dana 44 's at the low end 60's would be even better. Stock cj axles
would be a Dana 30 in front and an AMC20 in the rear, neither one will
take alot of horse power.
I say chevy only like you said they are cheaper and there's more aftermarket adapters for them. But a hemi would be cool.

Yeah, I was thinking 340 or 360 or possible the 5.7 Hemi like my truck has, maybe the new 6.4 Hemi in Chargers and Challengers. Definitely not a 426 Hemi though, that SOB would bury me DEEP into a mud hole. At one point when I was going to build a mudder out of an 86 Dodge shortbed I liked the idea of a Viper V10, cuz I've had a chubby for a Viper since it's debute. But then I priced out the cost of the crate motor and that was the end of that idea. More after market adapters?? My after market adapter says Hobart on it LOL.

I've also heard of guys putting a disc brake on the drive shaft of at least a mud truck, anyone here know anything about something like that?

 

[HemiMoparGuy1981]

Also, on the axles/drivetrain...LSD, auto lockers, e-lockers (or air), or just full time lock???

 

[mtnwhlr]

Also, on the axles/drivetrain...LSD, auto lockers, e-lockers (or air), or just full time lock???

I've been trying not to comment on this but on this ? don't buy a locker for what you plan just weld up the rear and make a spool out of it.

 

[HemiMoparGuy1981]

I've been trying not to comment on this but on this ? don't buy a locker for what you plan just weld up the rear and make a spool out of it.

What about front diff?

 

[csuengr]

Well, if you can run two sets of tires, run as wide as you can for sand at a low air pressure. You want to float on the sand. Mud is the opposite, most of the time. You want to sink down to firm earth, OR paddle your way through as in Super Swamper Boggers.

Actually, looking at the SS website, the boggers look like they might do well for sand, especially the wide ones.

Tractors are different. They work 'cause they have shinny tires with deep chevron tread. And the ground clearance. What gets trucks stuck are the axles. You sink to the axles, and your done. The current tractor, Ford 1310 4wd, has 22" tall front tires (they're cute), but 16" of clearance under the front axle. 20.5 hp with a real Transmission , 12 forward speeds (four on the floor AND three on the tree) and four reverse. 1rst gear is so slow it's stupid.

 

[mtnwhlr]

What about front diff?

Yea do both.

 

[HemiMoparGuy1981]

What about ground clearance/ride height...seems like getting too tall would be tipsy and roll on the Dunes

 

[Old Dog]

What about ground clearance/ride height...seems like getting too tall would be tipsy and roll on the Dunes

You want a mud truck up high to get out of the mud, but your right you want a sand jeep to be as low as possable.
One jeep to do both wouldn't work to well.

 

[cass]

i took my stock CJ5 to the dunes before the motor swap. when i say stock i mean i has no lift and slightly larger tires than stock 31x10.5x15. it performed great in the handling aspect. totally lacked the power. i still had fun though. i think if you made a good all around jeep you would be better off. if you did a Dana 44 swap with spring over axle conversion, you would end up with about 6 or 7 inches of lift. then with a stout powertrain and welded front and rear diffs you would have a very capable jeep for mud and sand. it would also do great in trails, rocks and all the fun stuff jeeps do well on. you would aim for a CJ7 for the longer wheel base. CJ5 is the shorter version.

 

[HemiMoparGuy1981]

i took my stock CJ5 to the dunes before the motor swap. when i say stock i mean i has no lift and slightly larger tires than stock 31x10.5x15. it performed great in the handling aspect. totally lacked the power. i still had fun though. i think if you made a good all around jeep you would be better off. if you did a Dana 44 swap with spring over axle conversion, you would end up with about 6 or 7 inches of lift. then with a stout powertrain and welded front and rear diffs you would have a very capable jeep for mud and sand. it would also do great in trails, rocks and all the fun stuff jeeps do well on. you would aim for a CJ7 for the longer wheel base. CJ5 is the shorter version.

Great info, thank you MUCH.


Kinda thinking of a way to put weight real low in the vehicle to stabilize it in the dunes better, but have it removeable so it doesn't make me drop into the bottom of the mud hole. Thinking Dana 60's would be a start as they should be heavier than the 44's?

Also, what about tranmission, I know you guys suggested auto over stick, is a stock tranny stout enough, or will I want something that shifts harder to keep torque at the wheels the best?

Lastly, I know these vehicles are opposite and will have limitations by trying to go both ways, but I'm not looking to build the baddest mudder or the baddest dune runner...if that was my direction I'd build a sand rail with a 426 Hemi and a mudder out of something else and put like tractor tires on it.

Oh , another idea...I know it's crazy and far fetched, but I just now thought of something like a taking the rubber tracks off of a bobcat. I'd float in most mud and have the low end weight I want in a dune runner...am I totally crazy?

 

[cass]

dana 60's are heavier axles. alot depends on what size tires you run and how much hp you plan to have. most stock trannys wont hold up to v8 abuse. i run a T-4 (lightest duty tranny) behind my 350 chevy. but...... i know if i dive in a mud hole and give it hell, the tranny will say SNAPPPPP!!! and be done.

if you used a CJ7 , you could use motor, tranny, and Transfer Case out of a donor vehivle. that would eliminate need for costly adapters to adapt to Transfer Case . but you need to research what you swap because your a mopar guy and im not sure what kind of truck you could take this stuff out of and have it work.

 

[HemiMoparGuy1981]

but you need to research what you swap because your a mopar guy and im not sure what kind of truck you could take this stuff out of and have it work.

What do you mean exactly? If I have a good welder and plasma cutter, where would the issues lie? I understand things may not be "easy" but a good project that'll keep me out of the bar is a good thing. LOL

If I were to go with a donor I think I'd be looking for basically the stuff out of my current truck since the trannies out of the previous generation are known to be total SH!T. But trying to find parts for my truck when I hit a deer when the body style had been out for 4 years was troublesome, so finding a donor would be troublesome. I might have to total my truck and go buy the Power Wagon that I want. And use the parts from my 06.

 

[cass]

the issues that come into play-

total length of powertrain and ending up with a tiny rear drive shaft(causeing vibrations and such)

does the Transfer Case have the front drive shaft down the side you need? (this depends on what axles you use)

how is the exhaust going to run?



these are all things to keep in mind when morphing things together.

 

[HemiMoparGuy1981]

the issues that come into play-

total length of powertrain and ending up with a tiny rear drive shaft(causeing vibrations and such)

does the Transfer Case have the front drive shaft down the side you need? (this depends on what axles you use)

how is the exhaust going to run?



these are all things to keep in mind when morphing things together.

Good info, but leads to more questions, LOL...

short drive shaft...how to the wheelstanders at the drag strip do it, and those shafts are spinning much faster than a mud or sand vehicle.

side of front diff/tcase...Trying to picture it, but am not seeing how there is a top and bottom to the front diff, to where it can't be flipped if needed...seems that if the yoke is being spun CW, it is still CW when flipped...maybe I'm visualizing it wrong though. I guess if there is a drain plug it may not work being on the top, but I could still just pull the whole cover. Wrong fluid level if not centered at drain plug, could drill and tap my own drain plug, or reflip the cover or something.

Exhaust, I was thinking of having stacks to keep it up out of water, either way, it'll be fully custom exhaust.

 

[mtnwhlr]

Hell go all out find a 3/4 Dodge Diesel 4x4 truck with a auto and swap the hole drive train over you would need to stretch the wheel base some. I have seen people get a 1000 horse out of them. You would have one bad *** rig. Would be right up your ally Mopar guy. Just saying