Installing a locker

[Oldguyinajeep]

I am in the process of choosing a selectable locker for my Dana 30 , on the front of my CJ7 . Will go with either an Ox or an Eaton Elocker. My understanding is that the carrier is the same size, so my pinion depth should be the same when I remove the ring gear from the existing unit, and replace it on the new locker. I should then only need to shim for proper backlash. Is this accurate?

Although I've done lots of wrenching on my jeep, I have no experience with setting up gears, and I'm a little reluctant. If it's only the backlash to adjust, I'd feel pretty confident. Otherwise, I'd probably let a mechanic do it.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[hagar]

In theory yes; but there are no guarantees in life.

The naysayers will say it's just the front axle, it will never see the miles the rear axle sees, it's not engaged the whole time, you only use it in 4wd, you only need to make sure it's "close enough", blah, blah, blah.

Being close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

I'd do the job right the first time.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I've been set'n up R&Ps for over 40 years.
There are no guaranties. I've had them swap with no issue using new carrier bearings and and I have had to reset everydangthing.
Why don't you just go with a lock-right? It's a drop in deal.
Lock-Right Locker - Dana Model 30 - Lockright Lockers - Lockers: ARB Air Lockers, Lock-Right, Detroit - Jeep Driveline
They work very well-
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Doing your own locker swap can save you much money, but it can be tricky and fussy work. Lumpy and others helped me through me first gear change and locker a Trutrac, it was an AMC-30 and it was done very openly here on this forum. After figuring out what to look for the experience will last a ling time. I did a gear change and E-locker install in my rear axle, a Dana 44 , in almost no time. But you need the proper tools to do it. First off beg, barrow or st .... or buy a proper clamshell bearing puller. A clamshell puller will save your bearings and is a god send for this kind of work.

 

[Old Dog]

I am in the process of choosing a selectable locker for my Dana 30 , on the front of my CJ7 . Will go with either an Ox or an Eaton Elocker. My understanding is that the carrier is the same size, so my pinion depth should be the same when I remove the ring gear from the existing unit, and replace it on the new locker. I should then only need to shim for proper backlash. Is this accurate?

Although I've done lots of wrenching on my jeep, I have no experience with setting up gears, and I'm a little reluctant. If it's only the backlash to adjust, I'd feel pretty confident. Otherwise, I'd probably let a mechanic do it.

Any input is appreciated.

I've gotten lucky that way a few times, but as others have said "it doesn't always work that way"
I say go for it, most times it will work.

 

[Oldguyinajeep]

This is very interesting. I have a Detroit locker in the rear, and a Power trax Limited slip in the front. I just figured a selectable was the way to go, instead of something that would automatically engage, and perhaps pull me a direction I didn't want to go.

Just took a brief look at the Lock Right ad. It is a true automatic locker, like the Detroit, correct? But I just gut the old carrier, exchange the ring gear, and drop it back in? Is this correct? Sounds like a great deal. 75-80% of my use is offroad, so driveability on pavement is not a great concern. Also, the price looks good. I'll do some more research, but would appreciate any comments from the forum. Thanks!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Just took a brief look at the Lock Right ad. It is a true automatic locker, like the Detroit, correct? But I just gut the old carrier, exchange the ring gear, and drop it back in? Is this correct? Sounds like a great deal. 75-80% of my use is offroad, so driveability on pavement is not a great concern. Also, the price looks good. I'll do some more research, but would appreciate any comments from the forum. Thanks!

Lock Right replaces the 'guts' of an open carrier.
Nut'n wrong with a Powertrax LS in the front either. Why not just rebuild the clutches in it?
LG

 

[Oldguyinajeep]

Yep, it hit me just a while ago, I can't use the Lock Right, since I don't have an open diff. Bummer, that seemed like a great solution.

Regarding the rebuild, I dunno. Just always felt that the LS was kind of a compromise. Sacrificing some additional traction for driveability. What's your opinion?

 

[Torxhead]

I have an ARB up front and am quite satisfied with that plus a Detroit in the rear. This way I can steer the thing in the rocks and flat hard surfaces, like what the terrain in Moab, Utah has to offer. The Detroit can be a bear on a slippery street though. I did have a modified Power Lock up front for a while, but I just needed more traction. When I pull myself out of an obsticle on a tough trail, I don't think about how much I had to pay for lockers front and rear.

 

[mriplaybass]

I am in the process of choosing a selectable locker for my Dana 30 , on the front of my CJ7 . Will go with either an Ox or an Eaton Elocker. My understanding is that the carrier is the same size, so my pinion depth should be the same when I remove the ring gear from the existing unit, and replace it on the new locker. I should then only need to shim for proper backlash. Is this accurate?

Although I've done lots of wrenching on my jeep, I have no experience with setting up gears, and I'm a little reluctant. If it's only the backlash to adjust, I'd feel pretty confident. Otherwise, I'd probably let a mechanic do it.

Any input is appreciated.

We used E lockers in both front Dana 30 and rear Dana 44 . Love them! Drives down the road like stock open diffs, and pulls hard off road. No such thing as just swapping the R&P gears to the new locker unless you are the luckiest person in the world. Pinion depth, back lash, pinion pre-load, and carrier pre-load must be correct or you will wear out your gears prematurely. As Hagar said, "Being close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades". One thing that I found out the hard way with Eaton E lockers is that the Dana 30 locker uses Dana 44 bearings. Just caused me a lot of wasted time when I tried to install stock Dana 30 bearings on the Dana 30 Eaton locker. If you use an E locker, make yourself a pair of set up bearings since the shims go inboard of the bearings.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Yep, it hit me just a while ago, I can't use the Lock Right, since I don't have an open diff. Bummer, that seemed like a great solution.

Regarding the rebuild, I dunno. Just always felt that the LS was kind of a compromise. Sacrificing some additional traction for driveability. What's your opinion?

I had a power lock in the front of my Jeep for a few years. Work'd very well. I went to a DL because, 1-Got it at a killer price--2-I play in the rocks. That means it is common for me to have a front wheel in the air--
I sold the PL and broke even on the deal. I really do like my front & rear DL set up.
LG

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I have an ARB up front and am quite satisfied with that plus a Detroit in the rear. This way I can steer the thing in the rocks and flat hard surfaces, like what the terrain in Moab, Utah has to offer. The Detroit can be a bear on a slippery street though. I did have a modified Power Lock up front for a while, but I just needed more traction. When I pull myself out of an obsticle on a tough trail, I don't think about how much I had to pay for lockers front and rear.

I for one, have no steering issues at all, EVER.
If you want to 'un-lock' a DL. Just left the 'fun' pedal.
DL's would not be my choice if I lived in snow/ice country.
LG

 

[Torxhead]

Lumpy, when I had my DL installed, it was long before the newer lockers were on the market. As I remember, there was only the Power Lock, Trak Lock, and DL available. This was around 25 years ago. I have the old style DL that has that loud "Locker bang", that sounds like a breaking axle when it happens. It still holds up and I have got quite used to its quirks. I am assuming that you have the Detroit Soft Locker, which was not out yet when I got mine. They are a bit slippery on the ice and wet pavement.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Both of my DL's are the older style. I run 90wt gear oil. I think my front DL was one of the first runs released to the public.
The best way I have found to reduce some of the DL 'habits' in a rear axle on the street..... Be sure that both rear tires have the exact psi in them with equal tread wear.
If I lived in snow country, I would use front and rear Power Locks.

LG

 

[Oldguyinajeep]

Bass,

Not quite sure what you mean by "set-up" bearings. Would these be an extra set of Dana 44 bearings, or are you saying I could use the old Dana 30 bearings, and then switch to the Dana 44 for final install?

Sorry to be so elementary, but I've never delved into this area before. BTW, the videos I've watched use a dial gauge. Is this an instrument that can be purchased at a reasonable cost, or should I expect big bucks (as in "you get what you pay for")?

Regards

 

[Hedgehog]

You will definitely need a dial indicator and a few other tools. Harbor Freight is your friend.

 

[Shifter]

If you are only changing the carrier...
Your pinion depth and pinion preload will not change. Just don't touch the pinion nut !

Check and record the backlash in 2-3 places before disassembly. Remove carrier, remove ring gear from old carrier, install on new carrier, reinstall and shim to achieve same backlash as you recorded before. This will put the gears back into the same running pattern as before.

It's not as bad as a lot of people make it sound.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

You will need a 'finger' type dial indicator that reads to at least .001"(mine reads .0005)along with a magnetic base with adjustable arm to set the indicators 'finger' on the gear tooth for backlash ck.
You will also need a FT/LB torque wrench. Along with a bearing puller and a hydraulic press.
I strongly recommend, since you have never done this type of work before. That you have a pro do this for you. Then you'll know.
Search you-tube and you find vids that show the work involved.
LG

 

[mriplaybass]

Bass,

Not quite sure what you mean by "set-up" bearings. Would these be an extra set of Dana 44 bearings, or are you saying I could use the old Dana 30 bearings, and then switch to the Dana 44 for final install?

Sorry to be so elementary, but I've never delved into this area before. BTW, the videos I've watched use a dial gauge. Is this an instrument that can be purchased at a reasonable cost, or should I expect big bucks (as in "you get what you pay for")?

Regards

Correct, you need to purchase a set of "sacrificial" Dana 44 bearings. The Dana 30 bearings are of smaller ID, and won't fit the Elocker. You only need a set of extra bearings, not the races, since the races are not pressed in. Using a die grinder or dremel tool, you enlarge the bearings so that they will just fit over the Elocker. Since the shims are installed inboard of the bearings on a Dana 30 , (I have heard the shims can be installed outboard, but the Eaton instructions state inboard) you would have to constantly remove pressed on bearings if you do not use set up bearings. Eaton cautions about damage to the stator when removing pressed on bearings.
As Hedge stated, Harbor Freight is your friend. A dial indicator to measure backlash, a digital caliper to measure shim thickness, and an inch pound torque wrench (not a "click" type, get a bicycle torque wrench with a pointer) to measure pre-load, are the 3 most necessary precision tools.
When you remove the old carrier, pull the bearings and measure the shims. Install the locker with the same thickness of shims on either side. This is the best starting point. Since you are using the old R&P gears, you just may get lucky and have everything line up.
If you decide to go Elocker, make sure you order the right one. One is for 3.54 and numerically lower ratios, and the other is for 3.73 and numerically higher ratios.
Hope this clears things up!

 

[Oldguyinajeep]

I'll get a magnetic dial indicator. I have a digital slide caliper, but could pick up a dial type if necessary. I also have an inch pounds "click" type torque wrench, but will get the pointer type if that's better. As Hedge said, I'll also find a clamshell puller. I have a 20 ton press, so I'm good there.

I think with all the good info from the forum, I'm ready to give it a try. It'll be a couple of weeks before I can tackle it, but I'll update the forum when I'm done.

Thanks again to all. You guys are great.