is selling a VIN tag w/title legal?

[Niedhogg]

I once met a guy that started a business with a loan he got on the titles of three Corvettes. All three were totaled with not an engine, Transmission or even unbroken windshield between them. Here in Texas you can not even scrap a car with out a title.

I'd say that banker was a moron, and that the guy you met was on the verge of criminal, and definately of low moral standards... and most states these days are the same way, and it's a good thing for the most part, but, I have a story that kind of shows a moronic side of that particular law..

My in-laws became good friends with a gal who had dated my brother-in-law for a time, she had a couple of very young kids which they babysat for when they would go out, or when she would have to work, etc., etc., and they became very close too... when she died of colon cancer, it was her request that my in-laws become her children's legal guardians and the executors of her will... she didn't have much, no family, single mother of two, a small apt. with very few belongings, and a car with a title in her name. Kansas, has this same law you talk of, and even though she had died, and left everything to my in-laws, they could not get the state to re-issue the title in thier name, they couldn't get a salvage yard to take the car because she hadn't signed the title before she'd died, and of course they couldn't sell it.. Kansas also has this silly law that every car on your property, regardless of running condition, must be legally registered and insured, so apart from just abandoning it on the side of a road somewhere (which is what I would have done), they had to have me drag it back here to Iowa, to get rid of it for them. Sorry, a bit off-topic, but some states are just up...

 

[Niedhogg]

To even attempt to register a stolen vehicle, you need a clean VIN and title, which is what the OP was asking about selling, and is very illegal.

For the very reason I just explained twice, and you still don't seem to understand.



The "why" doesn't matter, tampering with VINs is a crime with State and Federal penalties.

Removing them is tampering. Swapping VINs is tampering.

Oh duh... I guess if you put it that way.. sorry, I'm not a criminal and that didn't occur to me.. I'm a bit thick headed sometimes in my opinions, I couldn't see what you were trying to say, but I understand that.

 

[Niedhogg]

To even attempt to register a stolen vehicle, you need a clean VIN and title, which is what the OP was asking about selling, and is very illegal.

For the very reason I just explained twice, and you still don't seem to understand.



The "why" doesn't matter, tampering with VINs is a crime with State and Federal penalties.

Removing them is tampering. Swapping VINs is tampering.

It also means that everyone who has ever rebuilt their CJ is a criminal, when put that way...

 

[bondo258]

It also means that everyone who has ever rebuilt their CJ is a criminal, when put that way...

Kind of, that's why many states may want you to get a Reconstruction inspection. You may not even need to be issued a Recon. Title after the inspection. You may keep your Standard title. You may be asked to apply for a new VIN. It depends what the inspector determines.

Is part of this getting your hard-earned money? ABSOLUTELY.

But..

Many jeepers keep a pile of "Jeep Stuff" papers. Here is a good excuse to sort through them, even if you're not going to do a Recon. Inspection. States change laws to get more money all the time. Maybe they'll start mandating hardcore re-inspections on "old vehicles" like CJ's at some point.

Keeping on the Reconstruction Inspection theme some of us may be subject to at some point.

That means bringing whatever proof you have of what was changed (reciept/bill of sale for a different Tub, or frame, frame sections, pics. ETC.)

Even an notarized statement from an assistant, or witness to what you have done may help. Car thieves won't do this ever, and nobody with a brain cell is going to vouch for a car thief, on a legal document.

You want to go prepared. "I have proof at home" isn't gonna work here. They may not want to see what you have at all.

Think of it as a court appearance. You want to walk out happy. Take a few hours, organize what you can to document your work, Get some pics off the net of similar projects, to help the inspector understand why you (or a previous owner) did what was done.

Rotten crumpled tubs, windshield frames,rotted cracked frames. Speedos with water damage, ETC.

Taking a few pics of a VIN in a damaged /rusted area you "reconstructed", or where one may be missing, and a few build pictures is recommended, too.

They go over the vehicle with a fine tooth comb, If your tub is an original paint gold, and your title says red, they're going to investigate a little more. Actually they'll usually check anyway.

Previous out-of-state titles can get a lot more scrutiny, too.

They will often take some stuff apart, and scuff paint in an out of sight area to check this. Mirrors or little cameras will be used, Cylinder count under the hood, too if in an Emissions test state. charcoal Canister, even if not sniffed anymore.

At the worst, if too many parts are mismatched and "clean" the state will issue a new VIN. This is rare. They mainly care about safety and money. If you don't have a front sway bar, even if it didn't come with one, they may ask you to install one. 4-wheel drums may flunk. Two point belts may flunk.

If you've done a Concours quality resto, or it's in an original condition, they'll probably be ok with original equipment. road warriors and rock crawlers get much more scrutiny as far as equipment goes.

The inspector gets the final say, most of the time. The laws give him or her all sorts of leeway.

If they happen to find a VIN that belongs to a stolen vehicle, even from thirty years ago, or something seems "fishy" they will investigate further. You probably won't be driving it the next day either.

 

[shortbus]

sell it...

 

[Niedhogg]

Iowa had a state inspection years ago when I was about to start driving, '79-'80, and then just as I was about to get my first car inspected, they abolished the law... we have none whatsoever still today.. there is a way to legally obtain titles for abandoned, or very old vehicles, they call it bonding a title, and it's a lengthy process of several months or much longer in some cases. I haven't had to use this method yet. I thank god I live in a state without any inspections, it really sounds like a real pain to deal with.

 

[bondo258]

Normal inspection aren't that bad in MA. One free reinspect, within thirty days. It's all stuff I try to stay on top of with my vehicles anyhow.

They scan/photo your VIN, Check lights, wipers, horn. windshield, front end play, tires. seat belts. parking brake. general body condition. Lift the hood to see how many cylinders you have. visual check of emissions.

If applicable, check engine light, air bags, plug into your computer, fuel cap pressure check.

Twenty minutes, tops if there's no line. licensed garages do them, it's not a state agency, thank God...

They used to do all of the above, with up to three Dyno-Tests on the emissions, with a tailpipe probe. Well over an hour sometimes. Heaven forbid something dripped onto the floor...

No, no HP, or torque curves were mapped . Just real wheel speed, RPM, and exhaust gas curve analysis.

 

[Posi]

It’s perfectly legal to sell a title and tag for exhibit and historical reasons.

 

[existentialhandyman]

Mich rez also - When you transfer a majority of parts from one vehicle to another the major components - engine, body and frame, determine the assignment of vin.
Numbers on the firewall/frame/dash MUST match that of the title or you cannot register the vehicle and obtain plates. the older the vehicle the easier it is to do a switchover..... but, it don't make it right. Should they care to look (they ain't gonna recognize the diff btwn a 79 and an 86) not likely if the paperwork looks square, all safety and emissions equipment would be required as of the year of the title/vin#. Dude, Viv #'s gotta match cause they do look.
Also, You could acquire the additional correct year components and build another one, EH!