Motor timing 180* out?

[Turbogus]

That gauge of spring I was able to cut to length and is working great. Was able to get the initial 1.5 to 2 turns out from bottom and the spring tension is enough to hold in place.

 

[Turbogus]

The motor's running now, a little rough but I've yet to adjust the air screws and the ignition timing. In summary what caused my trouble seems to have been a perforated (sunken) float and the throttle shafts needed bushings on account of wear.

 

[Torxhead]

Thanks for the update Gus, I once had a hole in a AFB brass float and ended up soldering it up.

 

[Turbogus]

For the life of me I couldn't find where the hole was, but the float was mostly full of fuel as I could hear the slosh.

 

[Hedgehog]

That isn't as uncommon as you might think. Also the fiber floats, I guess they are fiber, some sort of block material, will become saturated and sink. If you can find them the brass ones are about as good as they get. Rob at Willys Works started testing all his floats before sale, usually the fuel tank floats. An amazing percentage fail the test. When he complained to the manufacturer they essentially said, "Oh well. Send'em back."

It sounds like you are on the right track.

 

[Turbogus]

Well, looks like I spoke too soon. Spark plugs loaded up after initial startup.

The original and replacement floats are brass.

 

[Torxhead]

Leaky needle and seat or the floats were not adjusted correctly?

 

[Hedgehog]

Mine was not brass, it is a block of material of some kind. Had a conversation about this very thing with Rob at Willys Works. Brass is better though. The block material will water/fuel log after a time.

I sure hope you solve your problems soon, it must be getting frustrating for you.

 

[Turbogus]

Perhaps those off road needles don't fit the seats that were present. This situation put me in such a foul mood I felt like having it towed to the damm wrecking yard

 

[Hedgehog]

The only advice I can give is to put in strictly stock parts. If it runs properly, then try putting in the experimental items. I imagine the seat would have to be matched to the needle. Then the float would need to be reset for the needle. Sorry if I'm repeating things you've already done.

 

[Turbogus]

It's quite alright Hedgehog, I'm just frustrated with wasting the entire summer with this damm thing. I'm going to pull the seats and compare them to others that I have to see if there is indeed a difference. Will likely post my findings tomorrow.

 

[Hedgehog]

Of course I was talking about using stock engine parts and running gear. Seats is seats, it's the running gear that get you down the road.

 

[Torxhead]

Just to make sure Gus, you are not using an electric fuel pump are you? I have heard of those high pressure jobs blowing past a needle & seat.

 

[Turbogus]

Now that I've regained my brain and got out of that funk, 'BB' has an O.E. mechanical pump. I received some possibly misguided information a while back that I needed to install a fuel pressure regulator nevertheless, another poster mentioned that the unique design of the fuel filter negates the need for a F.P.R. (I installed one anyway and it had no effect) I had a look at the original installation guide (from '85) and on page 4 the troubleshooting section the first item to check is needle and seat. Looking into my Strip Kit I took note that while the needles appear to have the same tip (save for one pair that are solid brass) the only difference is at the float end;
a.This one is solid brass

b.

c.

c1.This one is the internal spring type (Marine/Off Road)?

d.Note the red tip on this one

Now where I seem to have gone wrong (unless I'm missing something ELSE) was at the seats where they are metered (like a jet) from what appears (by drill size);
1. 5/32
2. 3/32
3. 13/128???
and 4. 7/64

I have yet to tear into the air horn but I'm betting theres a honkin' large seat in there that's flowing too much fuel. Would anyone have information on the correct size for the flow differences between these for an AMC 304 , 360 and 401?

 

[Hedgehog]

Keep it simple. Get the proper/stock needle and seat. Don't mess with drills and mods. You have suffered enough with mods. Have you got a stock 2100 or 2150 carb. I bet someone here could come up with the stock parts for you. They should have been in your rebuild kit.

 

[Turbogus]

Get the proper/stock needle and seat.

If I only knew which was the proper needle and seat


Have you got a stock 2100 or 2150 carb.


This one's a Carter AFB, manufactured by Carter, not by Weber or Edelbrock... or Motorcraft
quote]

I reckon I can start with the smallest seat and see if it starts at all, then go from there.

 

[Turbogus]

Okay, doing decimal conversions I detirmined that the smallest seat (3/32) is 0.0935 which is a stock factory diameter according to the Dave Emanuel book on Carters (c 1983 ISBN 0-931472-11-3), while what was in this AFB were monstrous 0.1094 another set were 0.1625! I'm reverting back to that O.E. seat in the hopes it'll take care of the flooding. Sidebar this large seat is what came in the Echlin rebuild kit, apparently for a B Mopar

 

[Hedgehog]

It seems that these carb. kits are so universal it's easy to mix parts. A co-worker rebuilt his Motorcraft 2100 but accidently installed some 2150 parts. The engine ran but wouldn't make it through emissions. My carb. shop rebuilt his and it made one heck of a difference with the truck flying through emissions AND he said it runs MUCH quieter, far less engine noise. This is the reason I'm nervous about working on carbs, most other stuff, no problem, carbs give me the willies.

 

[Turbogus]

Things I'm ticking off in this debacle so far;

1. Sunken/Perforated brass float
2. Fuel/Vacuum leak at throttle shafts
both ofthese due to age/wear
and 3. Incorrect size Seat (needle & seat) 0.1093 (Correct is 0.0937)
... needle and seat included with Echlin (NAPA) rebuild kit was unwittingly installed by me as instructions read "Use the one duplicating original parts" and I took their meaning as referring to the needle and I hadn't guessed that there are varying sizes of seats.

...more to come?

 

[Hedgehog]

Hard core flooding like you are experiencing in a carb. vehicle is usually something wrong in the float bowl area or in some cases a malfunctioning power valve. A power valve can dump a lot of fuel in an engine very quickly, but it is usually running at the time. In your case there should have been a lot of gas flowing out of the over flow hose. Was there? Not to get too simple here, but the needle valve's only purpose it so keep the fuel in the bowl high enough to keep the engine running. The float level is critical, but not rocket science critical in that close is usually good enough. Before the fuel floods the engine fuel will usually dump out the over flow in a big way.

I know you hate to hear it, but you've given this a good go, you need a professional to help with your carb. problem. Have him rebuild it then you will know it's right.
Peace of mind can be a powerful and valuable thing.