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NOVAK ADAPTER FRUSTRATION-Please help!

NOVAK ADAPTER FRUSTRATION-Please help!
Here are some pictures of the tranny shaft, Adapter and sub-adapter... Perhaps, I could get Novak or another machine shop to cut the sub adapter 1" longer (fatter)?

Or, I noticed that the adapter has a straight (empty) spot in it, perhaps someone can successfully mill it to match my tranny shaft end?
 
I could machine you another sub adapter...but you would probably throw up at the price. 1 off pieces are not cheap. :censored:
 
Remove the studs-
Take it to a machince shop and ask'em what it'll cost to remove .750" of that spline shaft.
Take the mating part with you, so they can confirm the amount to cut.
There are NO ABSOLUTES, in deal'n with Jeeps. :dunno:
LG
 
76cj7chick said:
Here are some pictures of the tranny shaft, Adapter and sub-adapter... Perhaps, I could get Novak or another machine shop to cut the sub adapter 1" longer (fatter)?

Or, I noticed that the adapter has a straight (empty) spot in it, perhaps someone can successfully mill it to match my tranny shaft end?
Click to expand...

:)
Reprinted from the Novak site: "Dana 20 version: The installation of this adapter kit requires that the GM output shaft be cut shorter by 1-1/4 ". This should be done with a cut-off wheel and with care to prevent any debris from getting into your Transmission , as discussed in the enclosed instructions. This step is required so that we can keep this adapter assembly as compact as possible."

That should not be that hard of job..........is this Transmission you have used? If so It probably should be freshened up so it needs to come apart anyway.....once apart do the shortening of the shaft with a cutoff wheel , leave it about .060 long and then chuck it up in a lathe and with a carbide insert dress it off for a slight chamfer and straightness........all easy tasks for anyone that has the correct sized lathe..........Novak also sells used output shafts.........ask them what they would charge to shorten one for you , still would need to be installed in your Tranny.

:D:D:D:D
 
Sorry kid, but it's time for a blunt but accurate answer to your problem. You need to stop fussing around and pull the Transmission . It won't really be that hard .... it' s always easier the second time. Then either do as the adaptor place says and cut the shaft (again it will be easier that you expect) or pull the shaft yourself for a machinist or have the machine shop pull the shaft.

If it were me, I'd do as NOVAK says and cut the shaft myself with a well cooled cut off wheel. Relax, take a shot or two of what ever strong drink you like, measure and mark each spline and have at it. Take your time, cut slowly. If you become frustrated stop, reset your mind, then continue. When the cut is done, get a flap wheel to dress up the cur surface. Be careful though, a flap wheel can be very aggressive.
 
tarry99 said:
:)
Reprinted from the Novak site: "Dana 20 version: The installation of this adapter kit requires that the GM output shaft be cut shorter by 1-1/4 ". This should be done with a cut-off wheel and with care to prevent any debris from getting into your Transmission , as discussed in the enclosed instructions. This step is required so that we can keep this adapter assembly as compact as possible."

That should not be that hard of job..........is this Transmission you have used? If so It probably should be freshened up so it needs to come apart anyway.....once apart do the shortening of the shaft with a cutoff wheel , leave it about .060 long and then chuck it up in a lathe and with a carbide insert dress it off for a slight chamfer and straightness........all easy tasks for anyone that has the correct sized lathe..........Novak also sells used output shafts.........ask them what they would charge to shorten one for you , still would need to be installed in your Tranny.

:D:D:D:D
Click to expand...

Nice try tarry99..:p However if you go to their website is not as direct/ clear. As they start with a short paragragh on the 4wd version Then to another paragraph on 2wd versions and under that they talk about having to shorten the shaft.
I have to admit that once I saw that they jump to the 2wd version I stopped reading because I assumed this would be for the two wheel drive version and I would not have to cut my shaft.

I hope they will change the paragragh structure and organization to make it more clear for those that need it to be in bold or within the paragragh for the 4wd. ;)
Also it could partially be that I was really hoping that I would not have to cut the shaft because it just seems to be like your butchering up something that should not need to be done especially since you're paying a lot of money and it should be done without having to do such a thing like that just my thoughts though.
and like I said before two of their people thought that I wouldn't have to do any mods either until they talking to the machinist.
But it does seem like right now they are trying to work with me in and hopefully will be able to machine a little longer spacer since I stated that I don't really care if it's a little longer as I have switched from the long AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l to the v6. :)
 
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Ok good news, (I hope) I spoke to the Novak specialist today and let's call him E. I explained to E that I really don't want to cut up my shaft and that I don't have the tool nor do I want to take the shaft out to have someone else cut it. E was very sympathetic and I asked him is there any way I could get a thicker sub adapter spacer and he said that it may be able to be done and he'll have to speak to the machinist and that he will get back to me.
I further explained that I used to have the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l inline 6 long block and now I'm swapping to the 4.3 v6 and that I will have a lot more room to work with.
I asked E to make sure that having this 1 1/4" longer spacer wouldn't cause any balance or torque issues with the 700r4 Transmission or Dana 20 Transfer Case .
So hopefully I will be able to get just trade the shorter spacer and stud bolts for the longer bolts and spacer.
Who knows, then maybe other jeepers would rather go with a thicker spacer then have to cut their shaft. Especially those who have v6 possibly v8 with this Transmission .
E has asked me to wait 4 or 5 days to get this accomplished and that he will correspond with me via email.
I'm very excited and hopefully this will be done without delay or issues!

Thanks to all who have responded and have shown your support. I will keep you all informed on this adventure.:chug:
 
Last edited:
Shifter said:
I could machine you another sub adapter...but you would probably throw up at the price. 1 off pieces are not cheap. :censored:
Click to expand...

Thanks shifter for your offer. :p

I spoke to Novak who agreed to speak to the machinist(s) to see if he/they would cut a thicker one for me. :drool:
 
76cj7chick said:
Nice try tarry99..:p However if you go to their website is not as direct/ clear. As they start with a short paragragh on the 4wd version Then to another paragraph on 2wd versions and under that they talk about having to shorten the shaft.
I have to admit that once I saw that they jump to the 2wd version I stopped reading because I assumed this would be for the two wheel drive version and I would not have to cut my shaft.

I hope they will change the paragragh structure and organization to make it more clear for those that need it to be in bold or within the paragragh for the 4wd. ;)
Also it could partially be that I was really hoping that I would not have to cut the shaft because it just seems to be like your butchering up something that should not need to be done especially since you're paying a lot of money and it should be done without having to do such a thing like that just my thoughts though.
and like I said before two of their people thought that I wouldn't have to do any mods either until they talking to the machinist.
But it does seem like right now they are trying to work with me in and hopefully will be able to machine a little longer spacer since I stated that I don't really care if it's a little longer as I have switched from the long AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l to the v6. :)
Click to expand...

:)

76...........just a small word of advice.......little things like cutting a shaft is the norm on mods like this.....can't explain why you got misinformed but I suspect it's just the nature of the help now a days.......

Your in Good hands with "Exxc" who is a friend of mine........

You have a long way to go , so be prepared for more curves and challenges in your build, just par for the course when doing what your doing.

:D:D:D:D
 
It makes me smile to read that cutting the shaft is "Butchering up" when in reality adding a Transmission that was never meant to go in a CJ is in itself butchering up one product to work with another. When I put a ford T-18 in my CJ5 the whole main shaft needed to be replaced as part of the conversion. Along with a few other parts that needed to be machined to fit. Cutting the shaft is simply a method or part of adapting mismatched parts. If it comes down to it this might be the very best part of you remember of this conversion. Adversity can stir the creative juices like no other process.
 
Hedgehog said:
It makes me smile to read that cutting the shaft is "Butchering up" when in reality adding a Transmission that was never meant to go in a CJ is in itself butchering up one product to work with another. When I put a ford T-18 in my CJ5 the whole main shaft needed to be replaced as part of the conversion. Along with a few other parts that needed to be machined to fit. Cutting the shaft is simply a method or part of adapting mismatched parts. If it comes down to it this might be the very best part of you remember of this conversion. Adversity can stir the creative juices like no other process.
Click to expand...

Umm, I don't mean "butchering" the same way you're thinking. :p
I mean in the way that it will be undo able and it causes more work for me. Since these items are made in America you would think it would be easier for the person installing as well as the adapter costs quite a pretty penny....
It seems an unnecessary mod.
I would prefer just the adapter that was long enough to fit both the Transmission and the Transfer Case without a sub adapter spacer but looks like I will need to have both.
:confused:
 
Hedgehog said:
Sorry kid, but it's time for a blunt but accurate answer to your problem. You need to stop fussing around and pull the Transmission . It won't really be that hard .... it' s always easier the second time. Then either do as the adaptor place says and cut the shaft (again it will be easier that you expect) or pull the shaft yourself for a machinist or have the machine shop pull the shaft.

If it were me, I'd do as NOVAK says and cut the shaft myself with a well cooled cut off wheel. Relax, take a shot or two of what ever strong drink you like, measure and mark each spline and have at it. Take your time, cut slowly. If you become frustrated stop, reset your mind, then continue. When the cut is done, get a flap wheel to dress up the cur surface. Be careful though, a flap wheel can be very aggressive.
Click to expand...

Why not just make a more complete setup?
Why make something that causes more unnecessary and gruelling work.

A longer adapter, or in this case a longer sub adapters spacer would be optimal. Especially for people who decide to swap v6 ( substantially shorter then the I6 AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l ) engine in cj7s.

I also want to know why you believe the buyer needs to compromise? Again why not just engineer a complete and better adapter?
:confused:
 
Hedgehog said:
It makes me smile to read that cutting the shaft is "Butchering up" when in reality adding a Transmission that was never meant to go in a CJ is in itself butchering up one product to work with another. When I put a ford T-18 in my CJ5 the whole main shaft needed to be replaced as part of the conversion. Along with a few other parts that needed to be machined to fit. Cutting the shaft is simply a method or part of adapting mismatched parts. If it comes down to it this might be the very best part of you remember of this conversion. Adversity can stir the creative juices like no other process.
Click to expand...

It would be better that the designers' or engineers' are willing to improve and produce a more complete and simple adapter for their customers. Imagine an adapter that doesn't reqiure any (or a great amount) of modifications this way people would be able to be excited and eager of the company and their adapters.
I find being creative is in the idea of switching over my engine and Transmission as well as using a CJ8 hardtop customizing my own dash, among many other improvements.
In fact, you could say that the less I have to modify makes my life a lot easier as I am implementing a lot of these modifications.:p
 
tarry99 said:
:)

76...........just a small word of advice.......little things like cutting a shaft is the norm on mods like this.....can't explain why you got misinformed but I suspect it's just the nature of the help now a days.......

Your in Good hands with "Exxc" who is a friend of mine........

You have a long way to go , so be prepared for more cfurves and challenges in your build, just par for the course when doing what your doing.

:D:D:D:D
Click to expand...

Great. Perhaps you can enlighten me on this idea that I will be able to get a thicker adapter? Do you think Novak is capable of doing such a request if they are, do you believe they are mechanically able?:o
 
Sent an email to "E" today/ Friday morning requesting an update on the possibility of cutting a thicker spacer. Didn't hear back. Hopefully I will get a positive response on Monday.:confused:
 
For most people doing mods to a CJ length is VERY important, adding even an inch or so can be the difference between having a useful driveshaft lengths and having one that is impossibly short. Now don't get me wrong, I've read your posts and see that you believe your shorter engine length will more than make up for the extra length of the shaft/adaptor combination. Possibly. Also consider this, NOVAK and Advanced Adaptors have spent a bunch of money on engineering, they might just know what they are doing. Altering a mechanical device that encounters the stresses a Transmission does needs to be treated correctly.

If it were me and more than likely most of those that take on this sort of project I'd grab my grinder with a cutoff wheel and cut the shaft off as NOVAK has suggested. Remember the Transfer Case doesn't drive off a perfect main shaft length, it drives off the splines on the shaft. Also the end of the shaft is (I haven't seen the Transmission so this is speculation) more than likely supported on the end with the drive gear between the Transmission and the shaft support bearing. The drive gear is likely trapped between the Transmission bearing and the end bearing, supporting the gear within the required tolerances. So, a shaft of reasonable length and reasonably square on the end, WITH splines in good shape, properly trapping the gear in place will last essentially forever, even if the shaft is slightly short or not perfectly square on the end.

I hope it isn't the case, but I fear that you might be chasing shadows (the classic, chasing windmills scenario) here. So, come on now, you've shown that you've got nerve and drive uncommon in your gender, grab up the grinder, if anybody can do it you can. Measure carefully and "Git 'er done". You'll have a story and you'll be proud of yourself for it.
 
If in fact the added length will cause stress or an imbalance issue, I would then need to cut the shaft. But, I'm just saying if there was an engineer that could design an adapter without the need for a sub-adapter or that requires cutting a perfectly good shaft then that would be preferable. :p
 
Please believe me, I do know what you are saying/thinking. I believe that if there were a better way the mechanical engineers that designed the adaptors would have done it. I didn't say anything about leaving the shaft "as is" creating an imbalance issue. It was my impression that You might be nervous about cutting the shaft crooked and causing a balance problem. ........ also, if the shaft is too long for the intended purpose it is not perfectly good, it's too long. That is unless you somehow intend on removing the Transmission later and reusing it for it's intended vehicle. No, I don't really believe you want o do anything like that, but it's the only reason to worry about changing the original Transmission .
 
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