Build Thread Operation Sky Blue Water Trip Build

Build Thread Operation Sky Blue Water Trip Build
Yes nice work. Looks great!
 
That is absolutely gorgeous....... I'll,be lucky to have mine turn half that nice!!


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If I can you can. Take your time. Read. Read. Read. Be patient and you'll be fine.
 
This was the last piece before a test run...

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Got it all mounted back up and tight. Still needs a couple of welds but good enough for street.

Got ready to take it off the wheel dollies and go on first cruise and down came the rain.

I'll wait it out for a little bit, otherwise tomorrow evening.


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Well, I had planned to take my maiden voyage last night. Things didn't turn out so well. This was the first time I had let it heat to 180°. With this system some things within the EFI system or triggered unless you choose to have them triggered elsewhere. In most cases though you just leave well enough alone.

I fired it up and it didn't run great but I knew that it hadn't really even started the learning process yet. I immediately noticed that I had 5 pounds of vacuum. I should've had no less than about 18. In addition to that as soon as I touched the throttle it would idle up to 1300 and then fluctuate between 1100 and 1400 and never go back down. Trying to accelerate was a joke and it ran horrible.

I talked to Posi on the phone, about my vacuum issues and the fact that I had isolated a vacuum issue to my brand-new CTO switch that runs the EGR and the air canisters for emissions. I had mistakenly hooked it up to full manifold vacuum as opposed to the ported vacuum that it really needs.

So I capped off the manifold document port that it was using, and ran a line around to the back of the throttlebody onto the ported vacuum outlet. That brought my vacuum up to around 21. But it still around like :dung:.

The system allows you to start a data logger and save data logs to a microSD card with just a few clicks. I saved a couple of data logs and waited till this afternoon to contact Holley and email them to the technician.

He was extremely helpful, but he could not give me a final reason as to why I was having the problems I was. He was anywhere between RF interference on the mag pick up to a vacuum leak to some issue with the MSD6 box or the throttle body computer itself. He gave me three troubleshooting steps to try and isolate which path we should go down. One of those paths included removing the EFI from controlling timing for the time being. And in fact, the documentation does state that for initial start up you may not want to have the computer control the timing. I don't know why that would be if the computer indeed does know how to control the timing but perhaps it's a stopgap for people moving more methodically. I have no problem with that.

While I was looking at the documentation to figure out how the easiest way would be to remove the MSD six blocks from the equation and revert to basically no timing advance whatsoever since the distributor is locked out and no vacuum is present, I called JeepHammer/TeamRush as I'm fortunate enough to have him as a friend. While we were looking at the different wiring scenarios in the documentation I noticed that they reversed the polarity on the mag pick up unintentionally. They have the wires identified correctly coming out of the wiring harness, but for whatever reason the Ford Motorcraft distributor has those wires reversed. The only way to plug-in the distributor to the throttlebody maintained this polarity reversal due to the way the cables are inserted into the plugs. Maintaining this polarity reversal will cause a lot of advance and a lot of wandering idle.

As you can see in the picture below, you have purple going to purple and orange going to green. You cannot simply unplug this and flip it due to the way the ends are constructed.

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On the distributor side, orange is positive and purple is negative. On the throttlebody side purple is positive and green is negative.

Since I'm using the Ford to MSD cable adapter I was able to remove orange and purple and swap sides.

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I hit the key, it fired right up. I let it sit there and idle until it reached 181° and then adjusted the idle screw to back it down to where I had the computer set for - 675-700rpm.

With it running good and idling good, I hopped in backed out on the street and I'll be damned if it didn't throw me back in he seat! WOW! Unbelievable. I have to say I'm a bit shocked at the performance increase. Runs like a scalded dog!






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Great job figuring out the problem. Really looking forward to seeing this in person. Want to see the computer data and tuning. We are so happy for you! 😀
 
Great job figuring out the problem. Really looking forward to seeing this in person. Want to see the computer data and tuning. We are so happy for you!



Thank you so much I appreciate it.


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:banana::chug:
Good work! I don't think I would have had the patience to calmly figure things out without a few wrenches being launched skyward! (That's why I married an electrical engineer!:D)
 
Just like a new Jeep now! That's what a hot spark, and FI will do for you. Well done!
 
Great team work, along with excellent detail in corrective actions. :notworthy:
:chug:
LG
 
Wow. Great job figuring that out! Attention to details
 
Awesome 007 - can't wait to check this out in person in a few months!

:chug:
 
Even though pretty much everything on ours has been rebuilt, we are starting to consider one........................:rolleyes:
Our unfortunate motto: Money..........Parts...........Repeat
 
Everything has been running real well. Except I have had a random surge at idle or just above. I took some logs of it doing this and sent them to the tech at Holley and they came back with distributor phasing being off. They pointed to the instructions which indeed to state that you have to have adjustable rotor if you use a mag pickup distributor. Problem is, no one makes an adjustable rotor for a Motorcraft distributor (that I can find).

So I got an MSD Pro Billet and went ahead and got the cap adapt kit for the large cap and rotor.

The lockout is SO easy. Remove the gear, remove springs and weights, remove retainer nut, pull up on shaft and rotate 180deg, drop it down and replace nut.

To remove vacuum advance remove shaft, remove 2 torx screws holding vac canister, remove snap ring to loosen pickup assembly, unhook and remove vac assembly, insert plastic vac replacement insert, replace torx screws and snap ring then shaft. Done.

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Tomorrow I'll put my Motorcraft gear on and swap units.


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Today I finally installed my new distributor and phased it in.

Took the old cap and drilled a hole to see where the rotor hits on 1. From there you adjust the rotor to sweep the terminal at most any advance or retard.

https://youtu.be/7QKwaGiwazA

Here it is installed.

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Tried connecting to video but no luck. Removed . but still no luck :(
 
Hope that last one works. When I first posted it it had not yet processed.

The video isn't very clear as to what you're looking at but when the timing light hits through the hole in the distributor cap you can see where the rotor terminal aligns with the number one post.


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I think it's pretty clear, even I understand it 😁
 
So here's the wrap-up of the Sniper EFI... It's one heck of an upgrade. It's so, so nice. Holley support has been great and between them and their cousins at MSD they helped me through the couple sticky spots I got myself into.

Lessons learned:

  • Read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read. When you're done then you can re-read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read. At this point you will have retained about 70% of what you'll need to know. :confused: :D
  • If you install a Sniper, pay attention to the docs (obviously) but it DOES say to install it WITHOUT timing control to get it dialed in, then do the wiring and distributor work to let it control timing. I didn't do this, but it didn't bite me. I can see however how it could have. It's not much work to do it their way - like about an hour to change it over from no timing control to timing control.
  • I would never suggest doing one of these without adding an MSD6 box and the MSD ProBillet distributor. It definitely adds some expense, but you have it all torn out anyway - why do it twice?
  • If you do this with timing control, you probably won't get away with your stock Motorcraft distributor, you need more precise timing between your reluctor and your rotor / plug terminal.
  • You will need an MSD tach adapter to make your OEM tach work. Our OEM tachs are current based, not pulse based.
  • If there's anything not fresh in your ignition, now's the time to replace it (coil, wires, plugs).
  • If you have the stock air pump that pumps fresh air into your exhaust, it WILL throw the O2 sensor off and thus the computer off and your target AFR (air fuel ratio) and advance curve will be off. Remove the belt, or the pump or the main hose - up to you. Not sure how this will affect smog folks, but you may get by on the increased efficiency of the EFI, if not, hook it back up for your testing. If you still fail, manually set your AFR via the handheld.
  • This unit is on par with a 750CFM carb - fyi only.
If you decide to go this route, don't hesitate to reach out to me, I'll help wherever I can. I don't know it all - that's for sure, but I've done one now and I've learned a lot. I also won't tell you something I don't know either, I'll defer to the manufacturer - just like I had to do. I'll be doing this all over again on the Cherokee, I'm actually looking forward to it.

The Jeep goes to the shop tomorrow supposedly to have the one-piece axles installed and a rear brake line replaced.
 
Today I wired up the stock tach using the MSD 8920 tach adapter. As I've stated somewhere else before, the OEM tachometers are current-based and not pulse based thus the need to convert the MSD6 pulses to a smooth current flow that raises or lowers based on the MSD6's calculated RPMs.

The box has four wires coming out of it, black, red, white, violet. Black is ground. White goes to tach output on MSD6. Red goes to the OLD coil positive feed (red with black tracer). For our Jeeps, the violet is not used.

Mount it, wire it up and you're done.

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