Painless overhauling 1976-1985 CJ harness

[eric0o1]

My name is Eric, a I do harness design at Painless Performance, and I've been going over our 1976-1986 CJ harness, part #10110, to bring it up to date with other model/year specific harnesses I've been doing. Sadly, the manual for the CJ harness has to be one of the worst of all the harnesses we build, so that is priority #1.

as soon as I am done, it will resemble this one: http://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/20114.pdf

I am posting to get feedback from those who have installed part #10110. I’m looking for your suggestions in what you would have changed, what you liked, any kind of criticism or anything about the harness. I have already fixed known issues like clarifying duraspark connections, adding column connections for CJ with nss/backup light switch on the column, adding numerous grounds for those with fiberglass bodies, and adding factory connections to the tail lights (Weather-Pacs will still be provided for those with aftermarket lights and for those who prefer that style connection as opposed to the factory "trailer" plug connections.

For those who are not familiar with our 1976-1986 CJ harness, other than cost, what are you looking for in a harness?

I went through this process of seeking customer opinion on our early bronco harness and really liked the way it turned out and hope to duplicate that. I've also been searching for a builder or individual who has installed several of our current 10110 harnesses. So any questions, suggestions, comments (good or bad) are welcome.

 

[Deerejeep]

eric0o1, I've not installed one but I'm in the market. Appreciate you looking for feedback and improving upon the design. If you need to send out a complimentary version of your redesign to see how long a complete newbie takes to install I'm volunteering. Happy to document and provide feedback too.

 

[Jimbos76cj]

Since you've asked for feed back.. I think the painless line is extremely over priced for jeeps. Ive picked up a competitors harness for less then $200 shipped. The only difference is their does not got through the same hole in the fire wall.. But an additional $300 for the fire wall plugs is a bit to digest. If it were a complete plug and play system that would be a different story but you the directions still recommend buying another $100 for of crimpers to complete the install.

As for installation the one I bought was very simple to install and came with a decent set of instructions.

While I was reading through the directions of the harness your asking about I saw the head light upgrade harness for sale. After visiting the website I saw the price for it.. Wow!! I build the same harness with 12ga wire and ceramic sockets for about 1/3 of the price ($60 shipped)

Painless does make a great quality product but in my opinion the cost is way to much. I've wired my jeep with the competitors harness, installed the head light upgrade, set up the fan relays, wired all my gauges and fir every thing with weather pack fitting for less then $350.00

 

[oldthunder]

Hi Eric. I installed a Painless harness in my 78 CJ5 years ago so I dont remember the part number. It's the preterminated full harness with labelled wires, probably the 10110. Anyway it is a good harness. As you mentioned it would have been nice to have built in trailer wires and extra grounds for fiberglass bodies, I had to run a bunch of grounds.
I would suggest you figure out a way to make the fuse box better protected from water and grime, mine is getting corrosion in the fuse contacts. Dirty connections make things interesting, especially the top right fuse to the ignition.

 

[busterswt]

Hi Eric,

I just completed the installation if this harness a few weeks ago. I installed a Chevy 350 with HEI and found the instructions a bit confusing when it came to to the starter and ignition. There are a few unused ignition wires when going GM (meant for ford) but it would be great to let the readers know that they can be used for things like an oil safety switch and electric fuel pump. Providing that wiring diagram for the oil switch (with relay) would really set you apart IMO.

I found the rear light harness to be excessively long in places, but this could be due to me installing in a CJ5 .

Other than that, the labeling was extremely helpful in identifying wires. I had to make only one call to tech support, and that was to determine of power wire on that ignition bundle I mentioned earlier could in fact be used for the fuel pump. I remember the tech explaining an oddity with some ignitions, where power may not be available in the run position, so any caveats to ignitions between CJ models would be helpful as well.

All in all, it is a well designed harness, albeit a little expensive compared to the competition. I wanted a factory style fuse box, so it was worth it to me.

 

[Airstrike]

I am currently shopping harnesses, and have found yours to be a bit exspensive. AlthoughI love available features I have my doubts they are worth the higher cost associated with your brand.

My jeep is a 78 CJ and is Fiberglass from front to back so the whole grounding issue is important not to mention that they fuse box be water tight.

Between a completely new motor and wire harness they are my last 2 prtojects... and at your price I dont' see the bang for the buck to encourage me to change my current harness.

 

[Peanut Butter]

In your post cost is something you did not wantba commnet on, but cost is a major factor. The cost of a CJ harness is way too high, and causes most people to find other options.

For very little money, I plan to build my own harness (not to difficult with a little paitence and electrical knowledge) that will cost a lot less than yours. If the price range was reasonable, yes I would buy your product. Add the fact that new wire loom is an option (maybe at a cost of 10 to 15 bucks when bought in bulk) and your harness is not a justified cost. Get it in the $200 range and you would have a winner on you hands.

Sorry, just my opinion. Rod

 

[jdarg]

I think the price is fair given that Painless' harnesses are the closest to turn-key you are going to find.

Painless' "competitor's" products are apples and oranges in fit and finish.

No no I'm not a Painless shill - never bought a product from them and likely never would because I can also do it myself w/ a cheaper kit and don't mind the bulkhead differences and sourcing my own plugs for things.

 

[007]

I looked at the manual you provided, as well as the existing on for a Jeep CJ (http://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/10110.pdf) and there is a remarkable difference, so we all wish you well...

With a name like Painless - it needs to be just that. I've not done one of these but by looking at the existing manual for the CJ, I would shop elsewhere or fix what I have; but that's why you've come here and I for one appreciate and respect that.

You might try Rudy's CJ's at 614-203-1947 - he does a lot of restores and may have some thoughts on this.

Also, no new kit should come without a trailer hook-up or a plug-n-play add-on for one. Jeeper's don't tow a lot, but even my hitch mounted cargo carrier has lights on it that are nice to have.

Let us know when it's done...

 

[es335]

Sorry..went with the Rebel Kit-very good quality, reasonably priced, and good support team/person phone call away...

 

[Peanut Butter]

PS: My 79 CJ is in the middle of a frame off restro. If you need a test rig or bare tub, contact me. 830-391-6348 Rod

 

[eric0o1]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this, I've been side tracked by a couple other small projects and thought I had set up an email notification when someone replied to this thread. Every reply helps and regardless if you bought one of our harnesses or from another company, no need for apologies, you're still a customer and your opinion rather it be good or bad is valuable.

As to the price, I understand that cost is a major factory in choosing parts such as this. It's not that it should be swept under the rug and not discussed, it's just that there's not much I can do about it. The only way I can personally control the price is to start removing parts/connectors from the kit. Splicing, connectors, the inline fuse instead of a fusible link, all of these things add to the cost. If I remove $10, $15m or $20 worth of connectors from the kit, yes it will make the initial price cheaper, but the end user can spend much more than that, and a lot of lost time in parts chasing, to source them on their own. This harness is the closest thing to a plug and play harness that is offered on the market, unfortunately the price reflects that.

We simply cannot build our CJ harness with all of the connectors for $200, much less sell it at that price. Also, do not judge any pricing based on our website. Our website is usually one of the highest prices you will find due to the agreement we have with our distributors to not under sale them. Try pricing our product through Jegs, Summit, Morris 4x4, Autozone, etc.

007-I like the addition of a trailer connection in the rear, and will look into adding that. Thinking out loud here but how about: A 4 prong trailer plug (R turn/brake, L turn/brake, tail light, & ground) that is already spliced into the harness.

In the parts bag supply a mating connector pigtail, with 12-18" of length to allow you to splice to what ever trailer plug you need. Would this satisfy the need/demand for a trailer attachment point?



busterswt- I have removed all the ignition module wires from the harness because it was so confusing. They are all now in their own separate bag labeled "IGNITION MODULE". I've also included several color diagrams that show how those wires are used on factory duaspark installs.

oldthunder- I hear you on the weatherproofing of the fuses. As you know the fuse block is a GM fuse block which weren't weatherproof from the factory. We do have fuse block covers available for this fuse block, part #12000 ( see below). These have only been around for a around a year, so picking up one of these in addition to your harness wasn't an option. To help relieve the issue you are experiencing, I reached out to Permatex last week and all of our kits will now be shipping with tubes of dielectric grease. A little bit of this on the fuses, bulbs, and headlight connectors will help fight the metal to metal contact corrosion that plagues a lot of vehicles that see wet/humid conditions.

 

[Deerejeep]

So how does one ensure they get the updated harnesses, while attempting to get a good price from a retailer? I'm in the market.

Also on the trailer side I would not include the pigtail to splice. Keep the cost down, let the trailer side of the equation bare that cost.

Appreciate you addressing the questions including price.

 

[cjkersh]

I am almost done installing the Painless in my 1985 CJ7 . So...first issue: the purple and orange wires coming out of my distributor went into a computer module installed over my heater core which had a third wiring harness...something only a few years of CJs apparently have without any mention in the Painless manual. This harness can pretty much be removed because the only wires truly being used by that computer were the purple and orange wires for the distributor. Luckily I had a friend who had done the same bypass before and was available to come over and identify the problem. These two wires had to be rewired directly to the ignition module in order to get my Jeep to start. The tail lights have proven to be ridiculous. The original plastic connector which you plug the tail harness wires into is unfortunately not idiot proof. And there is no WARNING that you have only one single chance to plug the wires in correctly. I double checked myself and then installed the wires into the plug....backwards. Unfortunately this seems to be a permanent install. After being unable to remove the wires and reinstall them correctly, I purchased male/female connectors and cut off the plastic 6 slot plug. I connected the rear harness. I wired the tail lights following all instructions. Now, my brake lights only work when my headlights are OFF. My turn signals both come on at the same time. No matter which direction I turn on. My tail lights don't work at all. I have double checked the wiring...tried trouble shooting. Rechecked all of the connections at the fuse box and double checked all the fuses. This process has eaten up countless hours....going on 9 days of attempted install with the occasional assistance of 5 other people who all have rebuilt NUMEROUS vehicles and I STILL don't have working lights in my Jeep. I am really happy with the quality but I am really pissed at the lack of instruction. For instance, being explicit and saying the green wire #782 needs to start at the ignition module and connect to the coil at the positive terminal. Instructions like that would be a HUGE HELP. Far more helpful than having numerous wires labeled "coil" without understanding where and why they need to be attached. Oh....and my brights pop the fuse when I use the floor switch. >:-(

 

[LIVELY5R]

I hate to hear about your problems. I purchased a wire harness a month ago that I plan on trying to install once I put in a clutch & seals in. Please update when you find a solution to the troubles!

 

[Jimbos76cj]

Cjkersh, not to sound like an A-hole but most people who install these kits have a little bit of knowledge or wiring and how cj's are wired. I do agree with you that since you paid a lot of money for that kit it should have better directions.

Only help I can give is what have you done for grounds? Bad grounds can make your lighting do crazy stuff. I'd recommend getting a heavier gauge wire and make sure you have a connection from the battery to the motor, both fenders grill, tub and frame. I normally drill a hole and bolt in a 5/16 ss bolt to use as a stud then attach all my grounds to that. I also make sure that the paint under my bolt is scrapped off and liberally apply dielectric grease to every thing. Before you go crazy tracking down all those gremlins get you jeep grounded well.

 

[bptactical]

While at this time I don't need to replace my harness I would like to extend a sincere "Thank You" to Painless.
I think it speaks very well of any company to seek honest feedback from their customers.
Face it- when was the last time ANY supplier sought the feedback of their customers and furthermore embraced that feedback and made changes where needed?
Kudos to Painless.
At least they care what their customers think.
If and when the time comes for a harness I will pony up the extra glue for a Painless product.
Any company that embraces their customer feedback in such a fashion has earned my dollar.