T176/Dana 300 vs. SM465/NP205

[82slvrcj7]

T176/Dana 300 vs. SM465/NP203

Guys I was given a SM465/NP203 combo which I have learned is the white buffalo for those chevy guys out there. Currently my cj has the T-176 /Dana 300 which I love. Eventually the cj will be replaced by a tj as the daily driver and the cj will become a crawler/toy. What kinda ratios are we talking about here T176 vs SM465? And NP203 vs Dana 300? Which would be the best combination for later when the cj becomes the rock crawler it was meant to be. Thanks in advance.

I know this is out there but I gotta know. Curiousity killed the cat right?

 

[imbobbbb]

Im not sure what you mean by the 'white buffalo' phrase?The sm465 is a much stronger,heavier,lower geared Transmission than a T-176 .It can be easily adapted to an amc engine and somewhat expensively adapted to your Dana 300 .The best bet for a rockcrawler would be to keep the front rangebox off the np203 and attach a np205 or your dana 300 using one of the Transfer Case doubler kits from offroad design or northwest fab.The doubler kits arent cheap but since you already have the sm465/np203 you are most of the way there and wouldnt need to disassemble your 465 and there wouldnt be much price difference than just adapting the 465 to a dana 300.If you use the northwest fab 203 to dana 300 kit you have every major part already except the doubler adapter.You wont get a much better crawl setup then this since you already have most of the parts.

 

[RangerRick]

If it were me, id use the SM-465 with an adapter to the Dana 300 with a JB conversions 4:1 gear set. OR.... You could use a 203/205 combination dual range mod but that will likely be too long a package for your CJ7 Jeep. It would fit nicely in a CJ8 though.... The best bet is an adapter for the D300 and upgrade the D300 with 32 spline F & R outputs, the 4:1 JB Lo-Max gears with twin-stick, then you'd have a very stout setup with serious crawling ratio over 100:1 when in 1st on the 465 & 4:1 on the D300 and keeping your 4.10 gears in the axles.

RangerRick

 

[Fifesjeep]

I have to agree with RangerRick... be prepared to spend some cash for that set-up...

 

[82slvrcj7]

Lol "white buffalo" meaning a rare combo. I am rather weak in the drivetrain dept. so from what ya'll said I gather. The SM465 is definitely the victor of the two trannies so basically it all comes down to how low I want to go gearing wise. But, 100:1 sounds great that is leaps and bounds beyond the goal I set of a 72:1 ratio. I still would like to include the Dana 300 in the finished product so that rules out the NP203. The adapter for SM465 to Dana 300 and the 4:1 jb lo-max gears sounds like the ticket. So how much money should I expect to spend for that setup like Ranger Rick suggested?

 

[Cheepjeep85]

Adapting the SM465 to the Jeep Dana 300 Transfer Case
JB Conversions, Inc.
Adapting the SM465 Transmission to AMC Jeep Engines
EXPENSIVE. plus you'll want to rebuild the tranny and Transfer Case in the process, would suck to get it all together and it come apart. and you have to figure in the clutch, possibly driveshafts, and the front and rear outputs for the t-case, and you will want those with that much gearing. but it does make for an incredible drivetrain for crawling.

 

[Old Dog]

Re: T176/Dana 300 vs. SM465/NP203

IMHO You have this backwards, the tj would make the better rock crawler, and the cj would be the cool DD.

 

[82slvrcj7]

Ok so bc the gearing will be drastically lower with the new combo. That would make the u-joints and driveshafts the weakless link now. So I guess custom driveshafts from tom wood's would do the trick? And I am assuming a price tag of the finished product leaning more towards the $2k range. Am I causing a dominoe effect by doing all this I guess the next weak link would be axle shafts right? I really don't want to skimp on anything when I tackle this bc the last thing I want is to tow my cj off the trail with an exploded drivetrain.

 

[82slvrcj7]

Re: T176/Dana 300 vs. SM465/NP203

IMHO You have this backwards, the tj would make the better rock crawler, and the cj would be the cool DD.

Trust me I am with you on the cj as the DD thing. Its just when the wife starts popping out the lil ones the cj wont cut it. So she says lol.

 

[Busted Knuckles]

Not sure what your exact plans are, but that SM465 does not shift anything like the T-176 . In the event you do the swap and drive the jeep as "transportation" for a period, you will really miss the clean easy shifting of the 176, in comparison to the 465, FWIW... and Im making no reference to gearing just the effort it takes to shift the Transmission . The 465 is really old school and shifts like it to.

If its pretty much a trail dedicated rig, its not so much of a "issue". If I had to swap a HD manual in my Cj it would be a NV4500 or if I was running a ford powertrain, Id run the ZF 5 spd. They shift like a modern manual.

 

[imbobbbb]

Well there is nothing rare about a 465/203 combo,chevy cranked out a bunch of them from '73-'79 and nobody much wanted one until they came out with the doubler setups a few years ago.With a 465/203/300 doubler setup with 4.10 gears and 35" tires your crawl ratio is slightly over 140:1.The northwest fabworks doubler adapter is under $700 and you already have the Transmission and both transfercases.You would also have 3 ranges to your Transfer Case instead of 2,sometimes the super low range is too low and the stock high range is too high.Length 'may' be an issue,you only use the front 6" of the 203 ,the stock trans to t-case adapters are pretty long on the sm465, but a lot of the automatic trans and nv4500 swaps on cjs,yjs,tjs are pretty long too. A 465/203/300 setup is 6-8" longer than an adapted 465/Dana 300 combo and about the same length as a GM Turbo 400 /d-300 combo.You would still have a longer driveshaft than a CJ5 with a sm465/d-300 and plenty of people,including me have run that combo . You could always use the bluetorch fab kit that uses xj springs to add 8" to your wheelbase if you're worried about driveshaft length.

 

[Cheepjeep85]

Ok so bc the gearing will be drastically lower with the new combo. That would make the u-joints and driveshafts the weakless link now. So I guess custom driveshafts from tom wood's would do the trick? And I am assuming a price tag of the finished product leaning more towards the $2k range. Am I causing a dominoe effect by doing all this I guess the next weak link would be axle shafts right? I really don't want to skimp on anything when I tackle this bc the last thing I want is to tow my cj off the trail with an exploded drivetrain.

id say the next weak link is the axles, if your going with 35s or bigger and have that much gearing you'll snap an axle shaft long before the driveshaft. So yes dominoe effect more gearing, bigger tires, and lockers = much heavier axles, and driveshafts, everything needs beefing up for rock crawling. Now for a light duty but capable wheeler id look into 33s -35s, chromoly axle shafts front and rear, new driveshafts, lockers, regearing the axles, a 4:1 kit for the Transfer Case , and keeping the tranny and tcase you have. If im not mistaken busadaves setup is similar to the one I described he can give you some insight on how it performs.




Sent from my DROID2

 

[CJim7]

Quite honestly I would skip on the expensive adapter for the 300. Sell the 300 and the 203 and find a NP205. Direct bolt up to the 465, gear driven, strong as hell...

The 1st gear on the 465 is 6.xx:1 which is super low. There is such a thing as being too low geared. Even offroad, unless Im doing serious rocks, I stay away from 1st gear in my T-18 (6.34:1), it's too low for everything else.

A doubler is great, but it provides a lot of torque on u-joints, axle components, and just about everything inbetween. Plan on spening $$$ to upgrade everything.

With a compound low tranny (435, 465, T18), and a 203, 205, 300, you're driveshafts and components aren't really that much of a concern. Just keep an eye on your U-joints, keep them greased, and check for loose straps or u-bolts and you will be fine. I run a lot of hp with a compound low tranny, Dana 300 and have not had to worry about my drivelines. There's a lot of other things that break