The debate is over, I win!

[CJ]

<getting his good union made bow and arrow out and looking for an ambush>

The union discussion (if created) definitely should be in Sand Dirt and Mud...

 

[John Strenk]

Holy Cow, I guess that blizzard is big that we are all on here posting tonight.

Well phone is ringing, Got to go out and push some cold stuff around. Way to early though, it will just keep piling up all day.

 

[BajaEdition]

Snow? no it is raining out here is SoCal

however I can see it may be a weather thing. wonder if the pizza delivery guys are having fun out there?

 

[rushpowersystems]

Holy Cow, I guess that blizzard is big that we are all on here posting tonight.

Well phone is ringing, Got to go out and push some cold stuff around. Way to early though, it will just keep piling up all day.


Oh by the way, the fuel and temp gauges do not have to be changed. They work quite well from 6 to 16 volts. positive or negative ground.

no they will get to hot!

We only change all the gauges to retain a uniforms look, trailer queens gotta look good.

 

[IOPort51]

You guys are making my head hurt!!

I would suggest some one calculate the resistance of the bulb and measure the resistance of the bulb I think you will find no similarity at all. Well, other than the fact that they are both numbers.

Your calculations are for a resistance in a circuit and not for a load.
With a given and constant load, which is damned hard to get with a light bulb, the voltage and amperage vary inversely.

A winch or any other motor may have a constant resistance but it is the load that is proportional to the amperage. I doubt anyone will argue that the amp draw on the winch will be different if your just winding in cable or if you have a jeep hanging from it.
Watts and amps are not the same thing.

With the formula I=P/E where a 7 hp motor (1hp=700 watts?) at a total of 4900 watts at as voltage of 12 VDC will draw 408 amps. The same winch under the exact same load @16 volts will draw 306 amps doing the same work.
Item 1; I hope I never need the whole 7 hp.

That being said I am going to find my self a nice quiet bunker some place and watch rest of this from a distance.:lpopcorn:

 

[rushpowersystems]

Oh good thinking, we just put the fire out and you toss on a log, don’t you have some installing to do?

The true fact is there are so many variables involved it is enough to make your head hurt. Older alternators required around 25 HP newer ones are more efficient.

We are going to need to call a truce for the night, its Friday night, so it is time to pull a vintage MST3K off the server and enjoy the show with the family. :lpopcorn:

 

[BusaDave9]

Your calculations are for a resistance in a circuit and not for a load.
With a given and constant load, which is damned hard to get with a light bulb, the voltage and amperage vary inversely.:lpopcorn:

My calculations are for the resistance in a circuit because the resistance IS the load when you are talking about a light. The power that is produced is in the form of heat and light. The load on a light will stay extremely constant.
When you are talking about a winch that power may be used to pull a jeep out of a mud pit. Under these circumstances the winch will draw high current (amps) and produce a lot of heat.
But if the winch just has some guy hanging on the cable then the winch will not draw much current and will stay cool.
The load on a winch is rarely consistent.

 

[BajaEdition]

Busa, we are going have to go into the relationship of HP vs Torque to explain that one.

 

[IOPort51]

I'm just out here stirring a little


:lpopcorn:

 

[John Strenk]

Need a break....
Here is what i found...

Busa, we are going have to go into the relationship of HP vs Torque to explain that one.

Yeah, It gets complicated. I'm still weeding my way through this stuff:

Here is a sample:

Torque and Current

Torque is proportional to the product of armature current and the resultant flux density per pole.

T = K × f × Ia

where T is torque, K is some constant, f is the flux density, and Ia is the armature current.

In series wound motors, flux density approximates the square root of current, so torque becomes approximately proportional to the 1.5 power of torque.

T = K × Ia1.5±

where T is torque, K is some constant, and Ia is the armature current.

Speed, Voltage, and Induced Voltage

Resistance of the armature widings has only a minor effect on armature current. Current is mostly determined by the voltage induced in the windings by their movement through the field. This induced voltage, also called "back-emf" is opposite in polarity to the applied voltage, and serves to decrease the effective value of that voltage, and thereby decreases the current in the armature.

An increase in voltage will result in an increase in armature current, producing an increase in torque, and acceleration. As speed increases, induced voltage will increase, causing current and torque to decrease, until torque again equals the load or induced voltage equals the applied voltage.

A decrease in voltage will result in a decrease of armature current, and a decrease in torque, causing the motor to slow down. Induced voltage may momentarily be higher than the applied voltage, causing the motor to act as a generator. This is the essense of regenerative breaking.

Induced voltage is proportional to speed and field strength.

Eb = K × N × f

where Eb is induced voltage, K is some constant particular to that motor, N is the speed of the motor, and f is the field strength.

This can be solved for speed to get the "Speed Equation" for a motor:

N = K × Eb ÷ f

where N is rpm, K is some constant (the inverse of the K above), Eb is the induced voltage of the motor, and f is the flux density.

Note that speed is inversely proportional to field strength. That is to say, as field strength decreases, speed increases.

I'm thinking it looks like if you have no load on a motor, like reeling in a cable a higher voltage will increase the speed it reels in and actually lower the current BUT!! once a load is applied and start pulling then an increase in voltage will increase torque but at the expense more current through the armature and more heat.

ref: Notes on Motors

 

[BajaEdition]

I wasn't going to go there, I as just stirring the pot, is a good find though. explains it real well. nice reference now let us watch the hit the fan as go around and the party starts up again.will

happen and a few will get:wasted: but over all we can be just pass me more:booze:

 

[IOPort51]

I'm just going to stay hunkered down under the desk, if they can't see you, they can't hit you.

 

[rushpowersystems]

Wow, we are still at this, the debate really is over and since I am the pranker and not the prankee, I win. So in my summation “the debate is over and I win!”

 

[crust]

befor it is over we will have the entire wheel here, so lets just put it on the table

I think an easy way to say this in laymans terms is Volts equal force, electromotive force, so more force means more pressure

I like when voltage was Energy.
You have posted a P.I.R.V chart and that messes with my melon

 

[rushpowersystems]

No voltage was responsible for energy, you know e=mc2, how do you think his hair got that way? Voltage! Then he hit his head on the toilet and when he came to he had invented the flux capacitor. Come on people!

 

[BajaEdition]

I like when voltage was Energy.
You have posted a P.I.R.V chart and that messes with my melon

think of voltage as a water tower, the higher the tower the more force it causes.
oh that chart is simple, remember that each formula has its related formula in each quarter, so you just have to memorize 4 of them and the others you just rearrange.

 

[dslywalker]

Yep easy as P=IE

 

[fishinfool98]

Screw the charts the only question is how long is it going to work at a higher voltage

hold my beer watch this:booze:

 

[BajaEdition]

Roflmao

have actually done that

 

[CJ]

No voltage was responsible for energy, you know e=mc2, how do you think his hair got that way? Voltage! Then he hit his head on the toilet and when he came to he had invented the flux capacitor. Come on people!