truetrac detroit limited slip?

truetrac detroit limited slip?
What year Jeep?

Are you sure the tag doesn't say 4111? That is a 3.73 gear. Can you give us the exact writing on the tag?
 
Well the first thing I would do is pull the diff, cover and see what gears I really had.
IMO the 35 is junk
It's true that if you lift a tire only one wheel will spin (the one in the air) using the brake will help SOME.
An auto locker will only be locked when you are on the gas. When coasting down hill it will unlock.
 
5.2068832 4.115661-2
thats the exact tag #
 
i checked that site and i didnt get anything
and well it boils down to will the LS catch enough to pull my wrangler out with a wheel off the ground?
having to tap the brakes doesnt bother me but i need it to pull
 
I think we need to review something here
and that is how traction devices help
first, open diffs are what comes standard in 99 percent of vehicles, they are designed to let the axle release traction from one side so it can do turns and such, and release it does, going strait down a perfect road it delivers 50/50 torque. When in a turn it starts to deliver the power to the wheel with the least amount of traction. that is why it can get stuck, Torque applied is still a 50 /50 split but the HP is now on all the slipping wheel. if that wheel is slipping at 2 pounds of torque and it is going take 50 pounds to unstick the other wheel, it will never see that as only 4 pounds will be developed causing the stuck wheel to remain stuck and the free wheel to spin. why this works on road so good is the side with least traction will have drag from the low shear surface of the pavement. But in the dirt that drag can disappear quick.
( We must remember the difference between torque and horsepower here)
Now a Limited slip through either gears, clutches, ABS system (Toyota's ATRAC System) do the opposite of a open diff, they deliver the power to the tire with the most traction. how this is done is in the clutches or gears, they use those to create friction and use up torque, they are fighting to keep the tires turning at the same speed, so now they allow the torque to develop and tire with the most traction turns as the clutches or gears in the Limited slip device eat keep the slipping side from moving till the traction side is turning at the same speed. (that is what is suppose to happen in a perfect situation) so now we have our 50/50 split of torque from the drag of the friction devise in the Limited slip and the drag and friction of the other wheels surface it is on. Getting a tire in the air creates a non drag area and sometimes tricks such as a fanned foot are used to get that Limited slip to work, remember the world is not perfect. But over all a person used to driving a Limited slip can get them to perform really good in a lot of tricky situations. Limited slips were not designed to be lockers.
True lockers, we do not need to get into how they lock here. lock that diff together so that it is forced to make each wheel turn at the same rate. here is no question on how or why each tire gets the 50/50 split of torque and therefore being locked to the other wheel receives it's split of HP. What this translates into is both tires turn at the same rate always while the locker is engaged.
So, want to know what is best?
what is the best while on the street?
or what is the most transparent on the street?
Face one fact though, dirt and street are opposites so what works best on the street works least in the dirt.
Limited slips were designed for the street and work great off road. I grew up using them, Lockers were designed for heavy equipment in the dirt, we get the benefit of that research in our hobby but street wise they are a compromise.

follow this link, select the middle video, the traction demonstration, and see what happens with each type of setup
(I am not pimping Richmond gear, they just have a good video.}
http://www.richmondgear.com/02powertrax.html
 
Last edited:
Now having just explained that I will say what I use and why.
I run lockers in my main trail rig, detroits front and rear, I do not take that rig out in snow or ice. Crowning is a thing that lockers do on ice, it is where the rig slips down off the crown of the road toward the side of the road because the wheels are locked, with a open diff or a Limited slip there is enough drag on oe wheel or the other to prevent this.
My CJ6 runs a Limited slip front and rear. it does not wheel hard and I can drive it up in the mountains in the winter.
My wife drives a Rubicon with selectables, I do enjoy wheeling it but I forget what is locked and what is not, so I keep my rig set up with detriots.
I live in the west, not much mud here. I do know enough about mud to say I would run lockers if it was around here.
 
BajaEdition said:
I think we need to review something here
and that is how traction devices help
first, open diffs are what comes standard in 99 percent of vehicles, they are designed to let the axle release traction from one side so it can do turns and such, and release it does, going strait down a perfect road it delivers 50/50 torque. When in a turn it starts to deliver the power to the wheel with the least amount of traction. that is why it can get stuck, Torque applied is still a 50 /50 split but the HP is now on all the slipping wheel. if that wheel is slipping at 2 pounds of torque and it is going take 50 pounds to unstick the other wheel, it will never see that as only 4 pounds will be developed causing the stuck wheel to remain stuck and the free wheel to spin. why this works on road so good is the side with least traction will have drag from the low shear surface of the pavement. But in the dirt that drag can disappear quick.
( We must remember the difference between torque and horsepower here)
Now a Limited slip through either gears, clutches, ABS system (Toyota's ATRAC System) do the opposite of a open diff, they deliver the power to the tire with the most traction. how this is done is in the clutches or gears, they use those to create friction and use up torque, they are fighting to keep the tires turning at the same speed, so now they allow the torque to develop and tire with the most traction turns as the clutches or gears in the Limited slip device eat keep the slipping side from moving till the traction side is turning at the same speed. (that is what is suppose to happen in a perfect situation) so now we have our 50/50 split of torque from the drag of the friction devise in the Limited slip and the drag and friction of the other wheels surface it is on. Getting a tire in the air creates a non drag area and sometimes tricks such as a fanned foot are used to get that Limited slip to work, remember the world is not perfect. But over all a person used to driving a Limited slip can get them to perform really good in a lot of tricky situations. Limited slips were not designed to be lockers.
True lockers, we do not need to get into how they lock here. lock that diff together so that it is forced to make each wheel turn at the same rate. here is no question on how or why each tire gets the 50/50 split of torque and therefore being locked to the other wheel receives it's split of HP. What this translates into is both tires turn at the same rate always while the locker is engaged.
So, want to know what is best?
what is the best while on the street?
or what is the most transparent on the street?
Face one fact though, dirt and street are opposites so what works best on the street works least in the dirt.
Limited slips were designed for the street and work great off road. I grew up using them, Lockers were designed for heavy equipment in the dirt, we get the benefit of that research in our hobby but street wise they are a compromise.

follow this link, select the middle video, the traction demonstration, and see what happens with each type of setup
(I am not pimping Richmond gear, they just have a good video.}
POWERTRAX BY RICHMOND VIDEO DEMOS
Click to expand...


I agree "Detroit Lockers" are not technically for the street, but Ford sold quite a few for street use in "Baja Broncos" Early "Shelby Mustangs" & "Drag Pak" equipped "Mustangs".
 
wrangler rider said:
i checked that site and i didnt get anything
and well it boils down to will the LS catch enough to pull my wrangler out with a wheel off the ground?
 having to tap the brakes doesnt bother me but i need it to pull
Click to expand...

BajaEdition said:
I think we need to review something here
and that is how traction devices help
first, open diffs are what comes standard in 99 percent of vehicles, they are designed to let the axle release traction from one side so it can do turns and such, and release it does, going strait down a perfect road it delivers 50/50 torque. When in a turn it starts to deliver the power to the wheel with the least amount of traction. that is why it can get stuck, Torque applied is still a 50 /50 split but the HP is now on all the slipping wheel. if that wheel is slipping at 2 pounds of torque and it is going take 50 pounds to unstick the other wheel, it will never see that as only 4 pounds will be developed causing the stuck wheel to remain stuck and the free wheel to spin. why this works on road so good is the side with least traction will have drag from the low shear surface of the pavement. But in the dirt that drag can disappear quick.
( We must remember the difference between torque and horsepower here)
Now a Limited slip through either gears, clutches, ABS system (Toyota's ATRAC System) do the opposite of a open diff, they deliver the power to the tire with the most traction. how this is done is in the clutches or gears, they use those to create friction and use up torque, they are fighting to keep the tires turning at the same speed, so now they allow the torque to develop and tire with the most traction turns as the clutches or gears in the Limited slip device eat keep the slipping side from moving till the traction side is turning at the same speed. (that is what is suppose to happen in a perfect situation) so now we have our 50/50 split of torque from the drag of the friction devise in the Limited slip and the drag and friction of the other wheels surface it is on. Getting a tire in the air creates a non drag area and sometimes tricks such as a fanned foot are used to get that Limited slip to work, remember the world is not perfect. But over all a person used to driving a Limited slip can get them to perform really good in a lot of tricky situations. Limited slips were not designed to be lockers.
True lockers, we do not need to get into how they lock here. lock that diff together so that it is forced to make each wheel turn at the same rate. here is no question on how or why each tire gets the 50/50 split of torque and therefore being locked to the other wheel receives it's split of HP. What this translates into is both tires turn at the same rate always while the locker is engaged.
So, want to know what is best?
what is the best while on the street?
or what is the most transparent on the street?
Face one fact though, dirt and street are opposites so what works best on the street works least in the dirt.
Limited slips were designed for the street and work great off road. I grew up using them, Lockers were designed for heavy equipment in the dirt, we get the benefit of that research in our hobby but street wise they are a compromise.

follow this link, select the middle video, the traction demonstration, and see what happens with each type of setup
(I am not pimping Richmond gear, they just have a good video.}
POWERTRAX BY RICHMOND VIDEO DEMOS
Click to expand...

BajaEdition said:
Now having just explained that I will say what I use and why.
I run lockers in my main trail rig, detroits front and rear, I do not take that rig out in snow or ice. Crowning is a thing that lockers do on ice, it is where the rig slips down off the crown of the road toward the side of the road because the wheels are locked, with a open diff or a Limited slip there is enough drag on oe wheel or the other to prevent this.
My CJ6 runs a Limited slip front and rear. it does not wheel hard and I can drive it up in the mountains in the winter.
My wife drives a Rubicon with selectables, I do enjoy wheeling it but I forget what is locked and what is not, so I keep my rig set up with detriots.
I live in the west, not much mud here. I do know enough about mud to say I would run lockers if it was around here.
Click to expand...
Yes the LS will get you out of sticky situations... You have to drive it though!
 
alright unless a locker falls outta the sky for the same price ill get the LS
which it should be better so i dont snap those wimpy dana35 axles
 
and thanks yall i really appreciate it
anyone know where the inline 6 mounts are in a 95 wrangler?
 
wrangler rider said:
alright unless a locker falls outta the sky for the same price ill get the LS
which it should be better so i dont snap those wimpy dana35 axles
Click to expand...

have you checked the prices of lunch box lockers?

The D35c does have it's reputation, not all of it deserved. I think it was a good choice for an axle from a manufacturers point of view, but from a builders eyesight it is a lousy axle. Face it most guys buying a Jeep will never out wheel that axle. And most of the guys snapping an axle would snap the axle of a Dana 44 or other axle. Then once snapped the axle being a non flanged axle the axle wants to walk out. The walking out is the main reason the axle has such a bad reputation. It makes a recovery necessary. while with a flanged axle you can get a friend to give you a pull or drive out in front wheel drive.

the biggest 2 reason axles break are easy to understand and overcome.

the first is to big of tires, and finding the size a tire an axle can handle is easy, a lot of jeep sites have well researched tables about that. What happens when you run to big of tires is you start to stress the axle in every day grocery getter life. The day to day abuse causes the axle shafts to twist and the axle develops small stress cracks, soon you go wheeling and a spike load snaps the axle. Running smaller tires can handle the same areas and loads.

the second reason is way to much reliance on the accelerator. One thing you need to realize in this hobby is that the skinny pedal is not your friend. A stab at it can easily break a axle shaft. Remember wheeling is all about traction, and a spinning wheel is all about no traction, when that wheel catches traction, the entire amount of power and torque will suddenly SPIKE into that axle in a very very bad way. Too much skinny pedal is always a bad idea.

I have many friends driving around in D35c's and having no problems at all with them. Breaking stuff is easy, but it is easier to not break stuff. Good wheeling techniques are were it is at.

Now I am not saying you need to upgrade, a good Dana 44 is quite an axle, but remember that D35 can serve you well untill you can afford the upgrade. Just it will not take the abuse of the Dana 44 and you need to just remember that.
 
Last edited:
thanks man, but if i upgrade im going to a d60 and a chevy 14 bolt
if you gonna do overkill make sure its dead
 
ounds like you have been reading the latest mags
both those axles are huge, and the amount of tire you will need to clear those pumkins will make you think twice at the tire store
face it, mags make money to keep you excited about the latest trends
now, I have never run a tire over a 33 in my life, I run D44s and d 30s, I run with everyone else going over all the same terrain. but then I do not fall into the got to ge the trickiest crowd, instead I am in the learn what you are doing crowd.
Big axles mean big tires that mean big engines that mean lots o dollars in mods and maintenece, go ahead, I work for my money and do not spend it until I need to.
A bit of sage advice, put the magazines down, go out and wheel, go down every trail you can, remember getting to the end of a trail without a breakdown is the goal. roll a rock, pull out a winch, it is part of learning and how we conquered the trails for years, we use to believe 31s were big tires and went every where you are going today. But we learned how to wheel, we did not have cheap lockers, we learned how to work with a LSD in the rear and open fronts, we learned how to read a trail. We did not break much as we learned that meant a recovery. Now days they have turned it into a extreme sport. and every time you are in a fix, and you are having a tough time doing this and that, watch the old guy like me pass you up and go down the trail in a machine you swear you would never wheel as only wimps drive rigs like that. and when you get to camp 3 hours later, notice guys like us are already relaxed, having a few beers and talking about the guys we passed on trail.
you go to school 12 years to learn about life
4 more for a career
why not go to a wheeling school to learn how to wheel?
I take my 4 popper across the Hammers out here in SoCal and wheel with the huge rigs, and then drive it home. A Dana 44 and a Dana 30 are great combination, and will out wheel a lot of the bigger stuff because the guys wheeling the small stuff know how to do it, they do not need the big stuff.
 
^^^ How true this is ^^^ :notworthy:

We have a lot of newbees in our club who end up with 60's and 38's or bigger. As Baja said they break things more than we do and there is very little they do that the rest of us can't.;)
 
ok i found a real detroit locker for $75 used, but he trhew a bearing and chewd the hell out if its housing, i have pictures but no uploading, so is it still good?
 
wrangler rider said:
ok i found a real detroit locker for $75 used, but he trhew a bearing and chewd the hell out if its housing, i have pictures but no uploading, so is it still good?
Click to expand...

Sounds kind of shaky, where are the scars? If it's cosmetic it might be ok.
Maybe a $75. trotline weight.;)
 
BajaEdition said:
ounds like you have been reading the latest mags
both those axles are huge, and the amount of tire you will need to clear those pumkins will make you think twice at the tire store
face it, mags make money to keep you excited about the latest trends
now, I have never run a tire over a 33 in my life, I run D44s and d 30s, I run with everyone else going over all the same terrain. but then I do not fall into the got to ge the trickiest crowd, instead I am in the learn what you are doing crowd.
Big axles mean big tires that mean big engines that mean lots o dollars in mods and maintenece, go ahead, I work for my money and do not spend it until I need to.
A bit of sage advice, put the magazines down, go out and wheel, go down every trail you can, remember getting to the end of a trail without a breakdown is the goal. roll a rock, pull out a winch, it is part of learning and how we conquered the trails for years, we use to believe 31s were big tires and went every where you are going today. But we learned how to wheel, we did not have cheap lockers, we learned how to work with a LSD in the rear and open fronts, we learned how to read a trail. We did not break much as we learned that meant a recovery. Now days they have turned it into a extreme sport. and every time you are in a fix, and you are having a tough time doing this and that, watch the old guy like me pass you up and go down the trail in a machine you swear you would never wheel as only wimps drive rigs like that. and when you get to camp 3 hours later, notice guys like us are already relaxed, having a few beers and talking about the guys we passed on trail.
you go to school 12 years to learn about life
4 more for a career
why not go to a wheeling school to learn how to wheel?
I take my 4 popper across the Hammers out here in SoCal and wheel with the huge rigs, and then drive it home. A Dana 44 and a Dana 30 are great combination, and will out wheel a lot of the bigger stuff because the guys wheeling the small stuff know how to do it, they do not need the big stuff.
Click to expand...


I really like the way you think.
:cool:
 
yeah i sent the pictures to my shop and they said its a POS, thanks
 
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