Vacuum-Emissions???

[RanchGirl]

Good morning Guys....... First of all, I apologize for not getting back to some of your questions late yesterday afternoon. I kind of got tied up at work, and then when I got home my internet service was down. So, I just read all your advice concerning the carb this morning. Thank you.....

Let me give you an update and progress report. Yesterday, when I got home I worked on my Jeep once more, keeping in mind all the advice I received yesterday (Unfortunately, I didn't get to read the last few posts until this morning, so I did a little trouble-shooting on my own. You may laugh when I tell you my trouble-shooting techniques or wonder why I didn't have to call the fire department to put me out, but all in all, I got some results. I'm just not sure what they mean.) So here's the rundown:

1) I started the Jeep, but once again it would not stay running (acted like gas was not getting to the carb) and I could hear what sounded to me like a pretty big vacuum leak.

2) I poured a little gas down the carb and it would run until the gas was used up, and while it was running I sprayed Carb Cleaner in the Carb to help clean it out. (I had not read the post yet about using the B-12) After doing this several times, I tried it again and once again it acted like it was starved for gas.

3) Next, I disconnected the fuel line going into the carb and turned the engine over and verified that I did have good flow coming from the fuel pump.

4) While I had the fuel line disconnected, I got this wild idea to put a little gas in the short metal inlet fuel line to the carb (main fuel line is still disconnected at this point). Guess what, the Jeep started and ran until all the gas in the short metal fuel line was used up. Well, this had me scratching my head because it indicated that gas was going into the carb.

5) Well, I hooked the main fuel line back up again and once again I got the same results. Jeep wouldn't run; acted like it was starving for gas.

6) Scratching my head a little harder at this point, but IO, you are correct. I am a very patient person and I like a good challenge. So guess what, I disconnected the fuel line going into the carb once again.

7) This time I got a hair-brained idea to hook up a temporary hose directly to the inlet of the carb, bypassing the fuel filter and everything else. I had a piece of new fuel line about 2 foot long. I connected it directly to the carb where the main fuel line should have been connected. I took a little piece of string and tied the other end of the temporay fuel line straight up in the air. You know what I did next. Yep, you're correct. I filled that piece of temporay hose up with gas. I am a patient woman and I don't like for anything to get the best of me.

8) Now, with my temporary hose connected, sticking up in the air, and full of gas, you're correct again. I started the Jeep and was I surprised. No need for the fire department, the Jeep started and ran until all the gas ran out of the temporary hose. I did have to hold the accelerator open a little, because it would not idle, but it did run and this told me that gas was going into the carb.

9) Next step. Disconnected the temporary hose and reconnected the main fuel line. The Jeep started and once again died out. I stepped back for a moment to decide what was different between the temp hose full of gas and the main fuel line full of gas.

10)My conclusion: the vent line off the fuel filter. I disconnected the vent line rubber hose and plugged it off with a rubber cap and clamp.

11) Started the Jeep once again and WOW, it ran this time and kept running. It still would not idle, so I adjusted the idle screw based on the advice I'd received from you guys, and the Jeep kept running and idled. The big vacuum leak I had been hearing was no longer there either, but the Jeep was still running a little rough. While it was idling, I took the Carb Cleaner and sprayed around the carb like you guys told me to do, and I could hear the engine rev up when I would spray towards the back of the carb. So I still have a small vacuum leak, but the huge gush of air I was hearing before is now gone. I even drove the Jeep around my house 2 times and it did not die on me. I'M SO EXCITED about it running, but I still have work to do, so you're still on the hook. YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO MAKE A JEEP AUTO MECHANIC OUT OF ME YET. I could not have done all this without your help and knowledge.

12)Now since I have the Jeep running, I have some concerns. I know I still have to identify the small vacuum leak and fix it, but I have other concerns as well. Also, Trapshooter yesterday, suggested the purge valve to the cannister could be a problem. I don't think I have a line running from the carb to a cannister, do I?

Am I going to damage anything by running the Jeep with no vent line from the fuel filter back to the tank? Why was the vent line causing me a problem when it was hooked up? Does the vent line to the tank possibly need replacing???

The oil pressure seemed to be extremely low when the Jeep was idling. I have posted some pictures of the gauges and there readings while the Jeep was idling. Will you please take a look at the pics as well and tell me what you think.

Please look at the pics of the RPMs and the Voltage and tell me if those numbers look normal to you. Again, the Jeep was idling (but I do have it set a little high) when the pics were taken.

Man, did yall think I was writing a book??? I'm so excited about my Jeep running and I did want to explain all my hair-brained trouble-shooting techniques, so you would understand what I'm dealing with. Look forward to hearing from you guys after you read this "term paper" and look at the pics. Thank you again.

 

[RanchGirl]

Great Pics Girl.
See if you can take one looking down at the fan blade and fanbelts.I wanted to see if you had a air pump on it.The[ whats this pic] is a smog item connected with the air pump and exhaust system.You can get rid of them.That tube should go the length of the engine with smaller tubes coming off of it to the exhaust manifold.If you take one of the bolts out of the exhaust manifold where the tubes bolt to it.You'll see a bolt with a hole in it.When I did mine I took the whole tube assembly off the exhaust manifold and put a copper washer back on the bolt and put it back in the exhaust manifold.So basically your just taking that tube off reusing your bolts that held the tube to the manifold.Use some anti seize on the bolts.I can't remember if the bolts were a standard thread or not.Save the tube for future.You maybe able to sell it.They sure don't make them anymore.
Don't forget to turn your fuel filter the right way.Like a shotgun remember.It looks like you already have a breather cap on the valve cover in the back.
I'll look at the other pics too
Mike

I took some additional pics of the area around the fan blade, like you asked. They are now posted along with the pics of my gauge readings. I can take more as many as you want. Just let me know what you need to see. THANK YOU...........

 

[RanchGirl]

I think it would be a good thing if she doesn't have to learn to build carbs first rattle out of the box.
We shall see.

You're sooooooooo right IO. A carb rebuilt would be a little much for this "Rookie Jeep Mechanic" right now. Even though a carb rebuilt would be a great challenge for me, the greater challenge would be you guys trying to tell me what to do with all those little pieces. HEHEHEHE!LOL. I certainly hope a carb rebuild will not be necessary. Have you had an opportunity to look at the pics I posted today or read the long novel I posted?

 

[RanchGirl]

your doing fine don't worry about it.
the air pump is the cylindrical thing on the front drivers side of the engine, I would guess it has a pulley on it that more than likely has no belt on it. the air injection manifold is the system of small tubes that bolt in 6 places to the intake manifold, the crumpled hose fitting sticking straight up near the back of the motor is what is left of a check valve at the intake of the air injection manifold. as this stuff goes it is nessicary for you to decide what way you want to go with this project. Most will say the smog system is junk and get rid of it. On the other hand if a restoration is what you have in mind I would think having a working emmisions system would be a good thing. This is something we all have to decide, classic car or off road toy?

IO, my plans for this Jeep is to restore it and have a sharp looking ride to tool around in. The most off-road it will see is maybe riding dirt roads in the country, no rock climbing for me. So my goal right now is to get the Jeep running and reliable. Eventually, I may replace all the emissions stuff, if I could find all the parts. Right now I'd like to make sure the emissions stuff that needs to be removed, gets removed and stored like the crumpled piece of hose fitting on the air injection manifold, and properly isolate all the rest. Maybe this info will help you guys in directing me.

 

[RanchGirl]

Just a communications update. I wanted to let you guys know that I will be "out of pocket" from 12:00pm to 8:00pm or after today, so if I don't respond back, I'm certainly not ignoring you. If you have an opportunity to review the new pics I added today and the novel I wrote (didn't mean for it to be so long), I would appreciate your advice. I will catch back up with you later. If you need to see additional pics of anything, let me know. Have a GREAT DAY.......

 

[dslywalker]

Congrats on outwitting the culprit.
Your cannister is below the master cylinder on the drivers side inner fender.Its about the size of a quart jar and black with 4 ports off of it.Some people have them hooked up some don't like me.
Sounds like all your gas was returning to the tank.It looked like in pic the filter was right unless the fuel lines were turned around.I'll scan you a item from the FSM on the return line you can read.There's got to be a reson for it.
Mike

 

[dslywalker]

Jeep six cyl do have low oil pressure when idling and pop up to about 40-50 when driving

 

[dslywalker]

Looks like your air pump is disconnected.I didn't spot it yesterday but I think IO caught it.Looks like your radiator could use a good cleaning when you get all done.Blast it thru the fins with a water and see what come out. Oil pressure does look low to me while idling if your rpm gauge is working and saying 1800 rpm.That could be because of the sitting around.I can't remember did you change oil in it and filter? You take some real great pics make everything easy to diagnose.Boys will be along to help you with the carb
Mike

 

[dslywalker]

Here's some stuff on the fuel filter and fuel return system.As you can see the Factory Manual has lots of pictures.You did a great job of trouble shooting it to get it running.

 

[IOPort51]

Ok child!! way to GO!!:bounce::rock:
Mechanics are born not made; no amount of education will help if you have no connection between your brain and your hands. You are a mechanic and will someday become one with the great cosmic machine. I, for one, am quite impressed and will say that if you hang out here with us you will be answering questions as well as asking before you know it.
I will say at this time that an investment in a good, preferably CO2, fire extinguisher may be in order but the linier thought behind the procedure is sound.
I am still puzzled as to the why the fuel chose to go to the bypass rather than the bowl and I want to look at some reference material this evening to try to figure that one out. Did you try to reverse the fuel filter outlets? Does anyone know if there is a deliberate pressure restriction in the return at the tank?

 

[IOPort51]

The return line check valve in Sly’s scans is new to me. It says “some” jeeps have a check valve.
I need to spend some quality time in my library.

 

[dslywalker]

The return line check valve in Sly’s scans is new to me. It says “some” jeeps have a check valve.
I need to spend some quality time in my library.

Yep there's always something new pops up in the manual.That one is out of a 82 FSM.I had to buy it because the 83 FSM was only a supplement to the 82.Then you have to buy a 81 to cover other stuff.Now if you sit down and read all 2000 pages out of it.What would we remember JACK. Guess thats why we have librarys.
It almost acts like there is still enough resistance in the carb to make it flow back to the tank or not enough in the return line.Even on my TBI i use the return fuel line but it by passes thru the throttle body not the filter.
Anyway for a beginner she did some pretty good detective work.
Mike

 

[IOPort51]

OK after looking at the brake out of the BBD I am of the opinion that the problem is with the float and/or float valve. The quick fix on the BBd page seems the next logical step before a rebuild. have to get the bowl clean and free up the nedle valve.
And don't be sweatting a rebuild, it is a walk in the park compared to some things.

As far as running it with out a return line, I don't think putting the total pressure from the fuel pump on the float valve will work very well for very long.

 

[RanchGirl]

Congrats on outwitting the culprit.
Your cannister is below the master cylinder on the drivers side inner fender.Its about the size of a quart jar and black with 4 ports off of it.Some people have them hooked up some don't like me.
Sounds like all your gas was returning to the tank.It looked like in pic the filter was right unless the fuel lines were turned around.I'll scan you a item from the FSM on the return line you can read.There's got to be a reson for it.
Mike

Thanks. As for the filter, I checked and compared it to the pictures. I'm pretty sure I had it hooked up correctly. The small outlet (vent) was connected on top and the bigger outlet was connected on the bottom. I didn't have an opportunity to check anything out last night, so I'll take a look at the cannister this weekend and see what's connected, if anything.

 

[RanchGirl]

Looks like your air pump is disconnected.I didn't spot it yesterday but I think IO caught it.Looks like your radiator could use a good cleaning when you get all done.Blast it thru the fins with a water and see what come out. Oil pressure does look low to me while idling if your rpm gauge is working and saying 1800 rpm.That could be because of the sitting around.I can't remember did you change oil in it and filter? You take some real great pics make everything easy to diagnose.Boys will be along to help you with the carb
Mike

Thanks for the advice on the radiator. I'll make sure I get it cleaned. I did change the oil and install a new oil filter. I used 10W30 oil. As far as I know, the RPM gauge is reading correctly. With the oil pressure reading that low when idling, am I going to damage the motor in anyway. This 1982 Jeep only has 65,200 miles on the motor. I don't want to do something stupid to ruin the motor.

 

[RanchGirl]

Here's some stuff on the fuel filter and fuel return system.As you can see the Factory Manual has lots of pictures.You did a great job of trouble shooting it to get it running.

Thank you for the scanned documents. I did have the fuel filter installed correctly the way it shows on that first scanned document.

 

[RanchGirl]

Ok child!! way to GO!!:bounce::rock:
Mechanics are born not made; no amount of education will help if you have no connection between your brain and your hands. You are a mechanic and will someday become one with the great cosmic machine. I, for one, am quite impressed and will say that if you hang out here with us you will be answering questions as well as asking before you know it.
I will say at this time that an investment in a good, preferably CO2, fire extinguisher may be in order but the linier thought behind the procedure is sound.
I am still puzzled as to the why the fuel chose to go to the bypass rather than the bowl and I want to look at some reference material this evening to try to figure that one out. Did you try to reverse the fuel filter outlets? Does anyone know if there is a deliberate pressure restriction in the return at the tank?

Thank you IO and I do plan on hanging out here with you guys. I'm learning so much and it's fun to work on my Jeep, especially when I get some positive results. I agree, a fire extinguisher by my side would probably be a good thing. I try to be safe, but I am guilty of taking some risk when I'm trouble-shooting. I did not reverse the fuel filter outlets, but I can just to see what happens, if anything. I'll do that this weekend and see what the results are.

 

[RanchGirl]

OK after looking at the brake out of the BBD I am of the opinion that the problem is with the float and/or float valve. The quick fix on the BBd page seems the next logical step before a rebuild. have to get the bowl clean and free up the nedle valve.
And don't be sweatting a rebuild, it is a walk in the park compared to some things.

As far as running it with out a return line, I don't think putting the total pressure from the fuel pump on the float valve will work very well for very long.

I understand what you're saying about the float and float valve. What I'm really confused about, though, is when I used my temporary fuel line into the carb, there was no pressure or anything to push the gas into the carb. It just gravity flowed into the carb with ease. So I'm not understanding why gas can just gravity flow into the carb, but gas does not seem to be going into it when pumped. Even with the filter vent line hooked up, it seems that the gas should split and go both ways. If the carb inlet is gummed up, I don't know how the gas could gravity flow into it. I may not be making any sense, just kind of thinking out loud.

 

[RanchGirl]

Hey guys, just to give you a little more information about the fuel filter, I have attached a picture of the fuel filter that I took off the Jeep. I guess this is the one the previous owner had put on. Obviously it's not the stock filter with only 1 inlet and 1 outlet, and it's also rather large. I don't know if you remember some of my earlier posts or not, but the previous owner did not have the vent line connected. Ummmm, maybe he was having the same problem with the stock filter.

 

[RanchGirl]

IO, you spoke of too much pressure going into the carb with no vent line hooked up. I'm thinking out loud again, but could the PO have been using the bigger filter to help relieve the pressure going into the carb, since he did not have a vent line connected. Would a big filter like the one he was using accomplish this????