Well Getting a 304...

[poppatello]

I bid on and won a 72 AMC 304 . Supposedly it's been rebuilt to OEM specs and has a new Edlebrock carb. Rebuild has like 35,000 on it and came out of a 72 Javelin. You may have seen it on Ebay. Guy stated he pulled the AMC 304 motor and dropped in a 401. He robbed the AMC 304 motor of all the external parts like alternator, water pump, flywheel, distributor and ect and is using it on the 401. It does come with the exhaust manifolds. Yeaaaa. Just kidding.

I'm a bit un-eased and intimidated. This is un-charted territory for me. It was an impulse bid and I never thought I would win it.

So I guess I need to start collecting parts for the motor and figure out what I need to drop it in place of the 4 banger. I know I need to cut off the old engine mounts and install new ones in a different location. Not as easy as the I-6 I'm sure. I don't plan to run headers so glad I have the factory exhaust manifolds. I also need new radiator, fan shrouds, and tranny. I plan to run a electric cooling fan so that is a plus. I'm also thinking of scrapping the carb for a motor-craft as I've heard great things about them.

Any one have encouragement they can offer me??? LOL

 

[mylittlecj5]

I bid on and won a 72 AMC 304 . Supposedly it's been rebuilt to OEM specs and has a new Edlebrock carb. Rebuild has like 35,000 on it and came out of a 72 Javelin. You may have seen it on Ebay. Guy stated he pulled the AMC 304 motor and dropped in a 401. He robbed the AMC 304 motor of all the external parts like alternator, water pump, flywheel, distributor and ect and is using it on the 401. It does come with the exhaust manifolds. Yeaaaa. Just kidding.

I'm a bit un-eased and intimidated. This is un-charted territory for me. It was an impulse bid and I never thought I would win it.

So I guess I need to start collecting parts for the motor and figure out what I need to drop it in place of the 4 banger. I know I need to cut off the old engine mounts and install new ones in a different location. No, you just need the passenger side frame mount installed in the right hole... Not as easy as the I-6 I'm sure. I don't plan to run headers so glad I have the factory exhaust manifolds. for what engine? The Javelin ones probably won't work, neither will your AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l one. I also need new radiator, True fan shrouds, True and tranny Possibly just the bellhousing, unless you have one of the weak transmissions. . I plan to run a electric cooling fan so that is a plus. Then you won't need a shroud. I'm also thinking of scrapping the carb for a motor-craft as I've heard great things about them. why not see if the one you are getting is any good first?

Any one have encouragement they can offer me??? LOL

I personally wouldn't spend any time on a AMC 304 , but if the deal was good, more power to ya...
Look into the Teamrush ignition upgrades and install them.
I may be able to help you find a few of the external parts you are going to need. Make a list up and I will see what I have left...

 

[Jimbos76cj]

Im sure it was just how you worded it but you do not need to "cut off" the motor mounts. They simply unbolt. swapping in the AMC 304 ,360,401 into a CJ is really straight forward. you will need block side motor mounts from a CJ and Frame side motor mounts for a CJ with a V-8. you can find both on E-bay but you need to be very careful. alot of people will list them saying that they are for both the I-6 and V-8 but there is a difference. I think its the passenger side. I would either buy an after market set, OEM replacements or pick some up from some one on here that knows what they are talking about.

Like LittleCJ said the rest of the swap depends on the Transmission you have.

I need to get rid of alot of 360 parts from my shop... mostly brackets but cant bring myself to throw em out. Let me know and for a few bucks to package em and shipping you can have what ever I got. Which I believe is every thing including the bracket for a York AC/OBA compressor. See what intake and carb come on the V-8.. Most CJ V-8s and Waggy's came with the motor craft carbs already. If he had it in a javelin maybe he upgraded it in the past.

What ignition system do you plan on running? HEI would be the easiest. I have an extra water pump and altenator also but they are used and Im not really comfortable selling used mechanical part. I have had the altenator tested and it works fine. Let me know what your looking for.

You sure he took the fly wheel? they are not the same between a AMC 304 and a 401.

Either way I have a 360 in a frame in the shop so if you need help with any questions please feel free to ask.

 

[derf]

You shouldn't have to cut anything off your frame. The motor mounts bolt on at the factory. Though someone could have welded something on as a fix in the last 30 years.

If you can still bolt on the mounts, I'd highly recommend these: Jeep Motor Mounts for CJ-5, CJ-7, CJ-8 with AMC V-8 Mounts from Mountain Off-Road (M.O.R.E.)

As far as accessories, I have most of those parts sitting in my garage. They came off a 360 that threw a rod. I'd be happy to put them all in a box and ship them to you for a very reasonable price. Though it may not be worthwhile since I think there's a difference between engines up through 1972 and the 1973-91 style that I have. We can chat about that through PMs if you want.

As far as the carburetor, swapping back to a Motorcraft may be more involved than just buying a 470CFM Holley Truck Avenger and bolting it on in place of the Edelbrock. I ran one of those a few years back and they're great carbs.

 

[poppatello]

I personally wouldn't spend any time on a AMC 304 , but if the deal was good, more power to ya...
Look into the Teamrush ignition upgrades and install them.
I may be able to help you find a few of the external parts you are going to need. Make a list up and I will see what I have left...

Thanks! I will do that just as soon as I bring it home. I'm thinking he'll want his money soon so maybe this weekend. Now what is your take on the AMC 304 and why wouldn't you use it? It's the same as the 306 just bored out. I understand you get more power and torque with a 360 but there is a lot out there and in my area a bit more pricey. I don't want something no one has because I understand everything would be harder (swap, maintenance, repair).

Like LittleCJ said the rest of the swap depends on the Transmission you have. I have the T-4 . Sorry I thought I listed it on this thread.

I need to get rid of alot of 360 parts from my shop... mostly brackets but cant bring myself to throw em out. Let me know and for a few bucks to package em and shipping you can have what ever I got. Which I believe is every thing including the bracket for a York AC/OBA compressor. That would be great thanks! I am looking to install a compressor as well.
See what intake and carb come on the V-8.. Most CJ V-8s and Waggy's came with the motor craft carbs already. If he had it in a javelin maybe he upgraded it in the past. The carb is a Edlebrock.

What ignition system do you plan on running? HEI would be the easiest. Easiest is fine with me. I have an extra water pump and altenator also but they are used and Im not really comfortable selling used mechanical part. I would agree but not worried about a used altenator but I am running a Warn 8274 and one battery so thinking I may upgrade to a heavy duty alt. Thanks though. I have had the altenator tested and it works fine. Let me know what your looking for.

You sure he took the fly wheel? they are not the same between a AMC 304 and a 401. That's what the fella told me on the phone. I was wondering the samething. Is there something I should be concerned about? If he's lying about this they he may be lying about other things such as the condition of the motor.

Either way I have a 360 in a frame in the shop so if you need help with any questions please feel free to ask. Thank you. You can bet I will.

You shouldn't have to cut anything off your frame. The motor mounts bolt on at the factory. Though someone could have welded something on as a fix in the last 30 years. I don't think they were welded by any PO as I'm the 3rd owner. The first two were family. I was just told that I would have to cut and relocate and weld the mounts back into place when I was talking swaps a few years back. Very possible the person I was talking to didn't know.

If you can still bolt on the mounts, I'd highly recommend these: Jeep Motor Mounts for CJ-5, CJ-7, CJ-8 with AMC V-8 Mounts from Mountain Off-Road (M.O.R.E.) I agree. Had them on my 88 waggy.

As far as accessories, I have most of those parts sitting in my garage. They came off a 360 that threw a rod. I'd be happy to put them all in a box and ship them to you for a very reasonable price. Though it may not be worthwhile since I think there's a difference between engines up through 1972 and the 1973-91 style that I have. We can chat about that through PMs if you want. Well you know more then me @ the moment as I'm just getting into V-8s. I will take you up on the PM chat though.

As far as the carburetor, swapping back to a Motorcraft may be more involved than just buying a 470CFM Holley Truck Avenger and bolting it on in place of the Edelbrock. I ran one of those a few years back and they're great carbs. You ran an Edelbrock or Holley? I was told the Edelbrock were trouble that is why I was thinking of swapping it. If it's a good carb I'll keep it on there. Also I guess I'll just try it out first. If it has the Edelbrock on it I'm guessing he changed the intake???

Thanks for the fast reply guys and help. I'm feeling a bit better now.

Here is the listing. Not sure it will work as it's over...

AMC 304 engine | eBay

 

[derf]

Thanks! I will do that just as soon as I bring it home. I'm thinking he'll want his money soon so maybe this weekend. Now what is your take on the AMC 304 and why wouldn't you use it? It's the same as the 306 just bored out. I understand you get more power and torque with a 360 but there is a lot out there and in my area a bit more pricey. I don't want something no one has because I understand everything would be harder (swap, maintenance, repair).






Thanks for the fast reply guys and help. I'm feeling a bit better now.

Here is the listing. Not sure it will work as it's over...

AMC 304 engine | eBay

It's a 2bbl carb according to the description. The picture is certainly a 2bbl. Though I don't remember Edelbrock ever making a 2bbl.

If it's a factory 2bbl manifold, a swap to a Motorcraft would be the best choice.

 

[jasonmark1993]

The AMC 304 is a great engine in my opinion. I think he meant that he wouldn't spend a bunch of money on performance mods, but even in stock form the AMC 304 is great in a jeep. I was very happy with mine and it would have wheeled better than with the high hp engine I have now put in.

Sounds like you already have a bunch of guys that will be able to set you up with the parts you need.

 

[derf]

Turns out there's a guy on the full size jeep forum selling the right size carburetors for the AMC 304 . You want the 1.08 venturi rather than the 1.23 (1.21?)

2 bbl Carburetors $45 in SC - International Full Size Jeep Association

 

[poppatello]

The AMC 304 is a great engine in my opinion. I think he meant that he wouldn't spend a bunch of money on performance mods, but even in stock form the AMC 304 is great in a jeep. I was very happy with mine and it would have wheeled better than with the high hp engine I have now put in.

Thanks, that's what I have heard about the AMC 304 . It's not worth throwing money into it for mods but I don't plan to upgrade anything other the fuel delivery, ignition and things like that. Going from a 4 banger to a AMC 304 I think is a huge improvement. May I ask why you removed your AMC 304 ???

Turns out there's a guy on the full size jeep forum selling the right size carburetors for the AMC 304 . You want the 1.08 venturi rather than the 1.23 (1.21?)

2 bbl Carburetors $45 in SC - International Full Size Jeep Association

Sorry I have no idea what you mean. The only thing I know about carbs is different manufactures and what people tell me as far as reliability...

...

 

[jasonmark1993]

I built my jeep for a little bit of drag racing so I put a 408W in there. Its got a ton of power which is actually a negative when you are trying to crawl around. A light touch on the throttle and it wants to take off/spin the tires. The AMC 304 was great; really good low end torque.

I'd get the biggest 2bl carb that you can put on there if you aren't going to go 4bl.

 

[poppatello]

I built my jeep for a little bit of drag racing so I put a 408W in there. Its got a ton of power which is actually a negative when you are trying to crawl around. A light touch on the throttle and it wants to take off/spin the tires. The AMC 304 was great; really good low end torque.

I'd get the biggest 2bl carb that you can put on there if you aren't going to go 4bl.

Thanks for the replies. The review is just what I want to hear. I want to run the best carb I can. I know this sounds crazy but I want the one that will give me the best bang for the buck. Not so bad gas mileage but goo performance as well...

 

[jasonmark1993]

Id give holley a call and see what they recommend and then shop around for the best price.

I looked on summit real quick and they list a couple 2 bl carbs for like 220 bucks.

If I remember correctly, the motorcraft carbs were actually made by Holley or with holley parts or something of the sort.

 

[poppatello]

Well I just pulled up in the driveway @ 0107 now. I did a quick look over before coming into the house.

The carb is a motorcraft and not the Edelbrock I was told it was. The freeze plug in the rear where the flywheel goes I think this is the cam nut that was talked about. Yes it's new.

Motor has carb, timing chain seems lose, wires and plugs. Intake bolts are lose, not sure why. No timing cover or water pump. The motor hasn't ran in about a year and there is no oil in it!

I have heard it's not good to let a motor sit that long let alone with out oil. So what am I looking @ here? Should I pull the heads and look around? Should I pull the oil pan and see what the crank and main bearings look like? Or should I add oil and hand crank it a few times?

Here is another kicker. Motor is not original to the Javelin it was pulled from. That car was a straight 6. The PO installed the AMC 304 to the Javelin before the guy I got the AMC 304 got it. He got the car and drove it for two years putting low miles on it until he dropped the 401 in it last summer.

I know I can find out what the motor went to by the block numbers. Just too tired to look tonight. I will look in the morning. What else should I look for?

I also need to know what bolt size and where to install them for the engine stand???

 

[Jimbos76cj]

With out having te timing chain cover you are also missing the oil pump, fuel pump, and filter plate.. A new timing chain cove will set you back almost $100 unless you eBay a used one or find a good one on a forum. The fuel pump isn't bad. It the oil filter plate and internal parts for the pump are gonna cost a little bit. Sound like your also short a balancer, crank pulley and water pump pulley. All that plus bolts is going to buckle and dime you to death. You can find sets of bolts for sale on a few AMC sites. There are some crazy lengths and also spacers that need to be installed.

As far as checking it out goes I would get a good gasket set. I get mine from bj's off road. And go thru the motor and make sure terr are no surprises.

 

[jasonmark1993]

You'll want to bolt it to the engine stand via the bell housing bolt holes.

Should be like 1/2" bolts I think. You may have to pick up some extra long ones to reach through the stand.

I'd just rebuild it if I were you. You could always take a chance and run it, but you already have a bit of work to do with the intake loose and no timing cover.

 

[poppatello]

I bolted it to the engine stand this evening. Took 7/16 and 3/8 bolts. It was a piece of cake. I was so nervous and curious about the condition of the motor that I took three hours and over 101 pictures to check it out.


I looked over the external of the engine and took a few pictures. It looks like it had some work done to it but I just couldn't tell @ this point just how much.









The timing chain concerns me though. It seems a bit lose. One side is tight but the other has about maybe a 1/4 play.






I pulled the lose intake. Man was the thing heavy as blocks. It must weigh about 70 pounds and I can understand why many install aftermarket intakes. I may just do that if I find out it would greatly benefit the engine.












Looks pretty clean. No oil gum of any kind. Oil is dirty though. Not dry like I thought it would be.









Exhaust port is a bit dirty though.






Those plugs look new too.







I then pulled the valve covers. Not really sure what I'm looking @ here but looked pretty good to me.

















Then I pulled the oil pan. I got pretty stoked here but then again I may not know what I was looking @. However, I thought it was a beautiful sign.









There was red marks everywhere. I would think if this was an old un-rebuilt engine that those marks would be long gone.





There was no marks on the pistons or the front or rear part of the crank. Very nice looking I thought.


























Well that about sums it up. Again I am feeling pretty freaking great. Just so long as it didn't overheat and crack the block. I saw no signs of that unless the trained eyes see something I didn't see. I feel I made a nice score here.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong. I've never looked @ the internal of an engine before. I've pulled valve covers and have seen them all gummed up. But this thing just looked like a diamond in the rough.

No I didn't pull the head nor do I want to. I don't have the knowledge to do that and I didn't want to chance of damaging the push rods or anything. If these pictures did little to answer the question of a rebuild or great chance of a good running motor then I would take the block to a machine shop and have them check the heads.

Any thoughts or advice would be great.

 

[Jimbos76cj]

Yup remanned engine.. I wouldnt mess with it any further.. Install It and drive.

 

[Jimbos76cj]

Sorry got more thing.. Spray some oil or wd40 in the cylinders and turn it over by hand a few times to make sure all of the push rods move up and down. I would also run a compression check just to make sure there is no gasket, head, block issues but from what the pictures show your in good shape. The carbon in the exhaust manifolds just show that the po was running a very rich carb. He probably had a aluminum 4bl on it and swapped that out to his 401 when he grabbed all the rest of the parts putting that boa anchor back on it. I would say good score.

 

[poppatello]

Thank you, thank you.

Now, I'm guessing you mean a compression check with air and in the spark plug hole? If so how much air do I give it? My compressor will put out 175 psi.
I'm also guessing I will need to reinstall the head also.

How do I go about turning this beast over by hand???

 

[coldair]

Some where on the block there will be a washer looking thing that's glued on. usalley on the side of the block or on a freeze plug most engine builders put these on to make sure if the motor comes back messed up they can tell if it was over heated. When I get home tonight I can take a picture to show you what I'm talkig about.