What year is this grille?

[jeeptrix]

After much research I have finally determined I do indeed have a 1953 M38A1 with the original tub and frame.

However someone in the past has replaced the hood and fenders with CJ parts.

Does anyone recognize the front grille? What I am questioning is the cutout below the headlight. It appears like it was a stamped cutout and not homemade.

Any ideas?

 

[Tin Medic]

Those should be for the turn signals/parking lights. The lights in the front of the fenders arent original, at least that i've ever seen.

 

[Petescj]

Those should be for the turn signals/parking lights. The lights in the front of the fenders arent original, at least that i've ever seen.

They are for those lights. They seam to be shaped out like bombs though. Custom work from our military friends?

I dont know at all. Just throwing it out there.

 

[tarry99]

After much research I have finally determined I do indeed have a 1953 M38A1 with the original tub and frame.

However someone in the past has replaced the hood and fenders with CJ parts.

Does anyone recognize the front grille? What I am questioning is the cutout below the headlight. It appears like it was a stamped cutout and not homemade.

Any ideas?

Thats a later 1973 +/-Grill with the larger parking lights . The holes are stock that is just the way they came...The earlier 1960's version had a smaller diameter parking light and a round hole..............they will interchange but the hood latch is different and the radiator flange size is also larger on the later grill.

 

[73CJ]

Those cut outs are 72 up. The bump out was to clear the bulb that was mounted sideways.

The headlight rings aren't. They must be military?

Can you photo the latch assy?

 

[Petescj]

Supposedly this 53 is all original. It has the more conventional military fold down grill.

http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f94/very-interesting-worth-17541/

 

[jeeptrix]

Those cut outs are 72 up. The bump out was to clear the bulb that was mounted sideways.

The headlight rings aren't. They must be military?

Can you photo the latch assy?

Not sure if you meant the front hood latch since they were in the other photos but I took a closeup of them as well has the hood hinge and the windshield hinge just in case.

I wonder if the original fenders, hood and grille will work with the V8 or there just isn't enough room.

 

[tarry99]

Not sure if you meant the front hood latch since they were in the other photos but I took a closeup of them as well has the hood hinge and the windshield hinge just in case.

I wonder if the original fenders, hood and grille will work with the V8 or there just isn't enough room.

No Problem with the V8 small block type...........all of the early CJ's were the same length up front.
The later grill had a hood latch striker in the top of the grill housing between the front edge and the Radiator mount.........I would think that it still has the short pre 71 front fenders on it but take a picture from the side....
Looks like someone has mixed up some parts.

 

[Petescj]

Can you just take the headlight trim off so we can see whats behind it?

 

[Tin Medic]

I'm thinking its all original. The paint from the grill matches the orange paint under the windshield frame and while its possible there have been two total re-paints I doubt it.

 

[mstar]

Not original to a m38a1.As was mentioned the front fenders are later and the grille could be '69 on up.Cant tell without seeing it with the hood open.'69-'71 had hood prop rod and under structure for hood latch in grille.Lots of parts not military or m38a1.Like you said tub and frame military the rest heinz 57 . Like this


the radiator shroud has probably been modified to move radiator ahead for V-8

 

[73CJ]

Not sure if you meant the front hood latch since they were in the other photos but I took a closeup of them as well has the hood hinge and the windshield hinge just in case.

I wonder if the original fenders, hood and grille will work with the V8 or there just isn't enough room.

What I was asking was a pic of the hood release latch in the top of the grill.

 

[jeeptrix]

What I was asking was a pic of the hood release latch in the top of the grill.

Here is the top of the grille. It looks like the latch is missing. I also attached a photo of the underside of the hood and the firewall.
Also here is a photo of the headlight bucket.

I really appreciate all the help you guys have been. I just want to know what I am dealing with before I get started.

I would like to add the military front marker lights but the holes for the turn signals are just the wrong shape. While it won't be a true M38A1 at least it can look almost like one.

My next question will involve the seats and the brackets that were in this thing. I suspect the brackets were not stock but again I have no idea where the bracket that holds both seats came from. I will post some more pictures tomorrow.

One more question: does anyone think the small V8 is too much for the front end on this? The rear is a Dana 44 while the front may be a Dana 25.

Thanks again.

 

[mstar]

I think a educated guess would be someone installed a front clip off a '69-'71 CJ5 and then reworked the grille to move radiator forward.That is pretty much SOP for that type of engine transplant.Not a bad thing,just the way it is.You can certainly make your jeep look anyway you want if you have a way to do some metal work.My yellow CJ5 didn't look much better when I started on it in 1996.Good luck with your build .Mike

 

[tarry99]

Here is the top of the grille. It looks like the latch is missing. I also attached a photo of the underside of the hood and the firewall.
Also here is a photo of the headlight bucket.

I really appreciate all the help you guys have been. I just want to know what I am dealing with before I get started.

I would like to add the military front marker lights but the holes for the turn signals are just the wrong shape. While it won't be a true M38A1 at least it can look almost like one.

My next question will involve the seats and the brackets that were in this thing. I suspect the brackets were not stock but again I have no idea where the bracket that holds both seats came from. I will post some more pictures tomorrow.

One more question: does anyone think the small V8 is too much for the front end on this? The rear is a Dana 44 while the front may be a Dana 25.

Thanks again.

Looks like there is a lot of things going on under that hood........the grill is the later version that has been cut to make room for the Radiator, Battery on the drivers side, normally on the Pass Side. Looks like the Master Cylinder was added also but the location looks to be moved more towards the center...........the wiring look like you would just have to start over.
Take a look at the front knuckles on the front end.......do they have a large round ball and are enclosed? The later Dana 30 had the open U-joint style axles...........A V8 would be OK on the front end as long as you drive it with a little respect.

 

[jeeptrix]

No Problem with the V8 small block type...........all of the early CJ's were the same length up front.
The later grill had a hood latch striker in the top of the grill housing between the front edge and the Radiator mount.........I would think that it still has the short pre 71 front fenders on it but take a picture from the side....
Looks like someone has mixed up some parts.

Here is a couple of shots from the side as requested.

I also took some photos of the seat frame and where it is attached. Any ideas what year this frame is from? From the photos I have seen this is not a stock M38A1 seat frame. The seats themselves certainly are not.

If you look at the orange paint on the grille and the underside of the hood and the windshield hinges they all seem to match. I wonder is this was done by the military years after it was built with spare parts they had lying around and just kept on an airfield. Don't know how long the military would have kept this stuff considering the way the govt spends money. But that doesn't explain the V8 conversion. Or Bubba just wanted an orange hunting rig.

If I can get over to Washington DMV I will try to do a vehicle history and contact prior owners. But that seems like a long shot.

 

[tarry99]

Here is a couple of shots from the side as requested.

I also took some photos of the seat frame and where it is attached. Any ideas what year this frame is from? From the photos I have seen this is not a stock M38A1 seat frame. The seats themselves certainly are not.

If you look at the orange paint on the grille and the underside of the hood and the windshield hinges they all seem to match. I wonder is this was done by the military years after it was built with spare parts they had lying around and just kept on an airfield. Don't know how long the military would have kept this stuff considering the way the govt spends money. But that doesn't explain the V8 conversion. Or Bubba just wanted an orange hunting rig.

If I can get over to Washington DMV I will try to do a vehicle history and contact prior owners. But that seems like a long shot.

The fenders are 68 or later.....I believe that is the first year for the side marker lights.......someone built the seat brackets.........the normal seat would have been a 70/30 seat on a round tube frame with the passengers side 30% seat folding forward to get access to the underseat toolbox.
A lot of different things no big deal you have what you have enjoy it!

 

[mstar]

If you look at the orange paint on the grille and the underside of the hood and the windshield hinges they all seem to match. I wonder is this was done by the military years after it was built with spare parts they had lying around and just kept on an airfield. .

I think the scenerio about the orange paint is a stretch.probably just a repaint by PO not gov.Just a garden variety m38a1 that had some misguided owners.Maybe you will be the one to save her.Side marker lights started in 1970.1969 had reflectors on hood.The hood is a 1969 or later as i can see where the hood catch goes.earlier short hoods don't have that.All this won't change anything,just thought you would like to know.

Mike

 

[jeeptrix]

I think the scenerio about the orange paint is a stretch.probably just a repaint by PO not gov.Just a garden variety m38a1 that had some misguided owners.Maybe you will be the one to save her.Side marker lights started in 1970.1969 had reflectors on hood.The hood is a 1969 or later as i can see where the hood catch goes.earlier short hoods don't have that.All this won't change anything,just thought you would like to know.

Mike

Misguided prior owner is right. I just wish they had kept the original front end. The plan now is to do a frame off restoration but put this front end back on. I plan on keeping the V8 for now. I want to put all the M38A1 lights and gauges on so when I have money some distant time in the future I can replace the front end and the engine and return it all to stock. At least to the untrailed eye it will look mostly correct. A parade queen it will be.
If anyone knows about the size of the front grille will a 1953 military grille fit considering the newer fenders and hood? It will make fitting the marker lights a little easier.

 

[mstar]

THE M38A1 grille will matchup to the fenders and hood,but you would have to cut away the material in between headlights to accomadate radiator.kinda like what you have now.Shouldn't be to hard to find a military front clip and then you can see what you need to do.Your plan to make a parade queen sounds like a good idea.We have a couple guys in my area that have done that and they seem to have fun with it.
Maybe you could just redo the fenders and grille you have with a few patch panels and some body filler.No harm in that.Rattle can OD Green and your on the way. I have a friend thats doing a '71 CJ5 in desert camo.looks really cool. Mike