When do you scrape a Tub vs Welding patches?

[scoletta]

I have the front floor panels to weld in, a small section on each side, the tail light panels, the tailgate valence, and about a 1/4 inch of the back floor (under the tailgate).

Also, I will have to weld in the floor supports.....

I haven't looked too closely at the inner wheel well on the tub

At what point do you throw your hands up and swap out the tub?? Or, do you keep patching the tub to keep it as original as possible?

 

[duffer]

It's time and money versus just a lot more money. If you have the time, skills, and equipment, the patch panels will usually be the cheapest option. As far as "original as possible" IMO, it doesn't make a huge difference at that point whether it's a new tub or a severely patched one. If I was buying it, I would prefer the new tub-a lot less uncertainty on how well the work was done.

 

[rons75]

Thats the question ive been tossing around since i got my 75. I thing mine has a total of 12" sguare that wont need replaced. that may be an exaggeration, but pretty close. Dont have the money for new tub.

 

[PaRenegade]

That's a good way to put it "It's time and money versus just a lot more money.". How long do you want to invest in repair time and do you have a welder and a place to work (and store the rest out of the way). I choose the "less money more time route". I could have spent $4k and got a new tub and just touched up the rest of the parts (which weren't near as bad) but I decided I could by the individual pieces waayyy cheaper. And as it turns out I only spent $270 for 2-18" wide floor replacements (front to back). The rest I just bought various pieces of new steel and fabricated as needed. I spent about a year patching it and probably 5 lbs. of weld wire. But I now still have my original tub and the sense of accomplishment that goes with it.

Here's a link to my build: 30th Aniversary build- 82 CJ-7 Renegade frame off - JeepForum.com

You can see some of what I repaired by the new metal but the thread will show old and new.

 

[scoletta]

Thanks for the input. I will admit, the welding myself thing has a certain appeal. If I had $4000 burning a hole in my pocket, I might feel different.

 

[Peanut Butter]

Always welding/over new........ Why? Because new is not that good. Here is a previous post I did of a place that fixes a new tub so that it will actually fit. Good read....... http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f7/fyi-new-steel-tub-fix-22504// I just can't see spending the time to fix a new tub that cost several thousand dollars. My CJ7 has all of the same problems yours has. I've been slowly fixing all of the holes. I'm very happy with the results. Not perfect by any means, but I did it. My welder, a Lincoln 100 amp mig. Not an expensive welder either. Rod

 

[IOPort51]

How is your welding?

 

[Kane]

In my neck of the woods there are very few cj bodies worth saving. My scrambler was toast when i found it so i chose replacement. I am keeping the front clip though and tail gate.

 

[72rtchallenger]

I have the front floor panels to weld in, a small section on each side, the tail light panels, the tailgate valence, and about a 1/4 inch of the back floor (under the tailgate).

Also, I will have to weld in the floor supports.....

I haven't looked too closely at the inner wheel well on the tub

At what point do you throw your hands up and swap out the tub?? Or, do you keep patching the tub to keep it as original as possible?

If you can weld it would be the way to go here is mine now and it was a great project to build and cheaper and more meanful , was going to sale it but still having fun driving it



you can see the work I did here and had body repaired rather quickly

http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f98/84-cj7-starting-process-13469/

 

[mylittlecj5]

THis is what the wife and I have been working on. Old farm JEEP that the PO left the carpet in it and rusted the floor out front and back. The tub is too far gone to save properly, so we took some 16ga sheet I had laying around and made our own floor pans. Cost = $time, cutting disks, and a spool of wire. We have done a ton of other work to it (she pretty much raided my parts stash and cleaned it out) and now she is driving it as a DD. Not bad for what we have into it.

went from this...

to this...with very little investment, and the Jeep will live on for a a while longer!

 

[scoletta]

I really enjoy the forum members on here. You guys make it easy to ask questions and then get solid advice/opinions as answers. It nice to hear the support while I tackle this project.

 

[Only in a Jeep CJ]

When I look at fixing vs replacing, I factor cost and time AND how rare it is or how easy it is to replace. Examples:
I got in an 82 Limited that looked good from far away, but was far from good.



OK, it looked like from far away too. I knew it was when I bought it. So when I discovered this under thin metal covers...



and this :



combined with all the glue on the floor for the PO gluing down carpet (I'm not opposed to carpet if your CJ is somewhat leak proof....yes, its possibly....but please don't glue it down!)...I knew I wasn't going to screw with this when a YJ tub will swap out.

So I bought a YJ with no drive train for 275 bucks. Sold the frame/axles/and front clip for 550 so I ended up with a free tub that was in great shape and made money!
The time it took to pull it all apart was way less than the time to fix all of that and Id still have expanding rust in the seams elsewhere throughout the tub...no thanks.

So what happened to the CJ tub you ask... Well when I scrap a CJ tub, I cut out certain things for YJ to CJ tub conversions. Mainly the top of the cowl for the defrost vents, the tailgate upper cable brackets, the tailgates hinge floating nut plate boxes, the "jeep" on the side if its 83 or older ( mid 84 on had "joop" with a Jeep decal), and the firewall heat shields etc. Then it's off to the recyclers

Now, my CJ6 or Scrambler tub....different story. Ill take the time to repair those small sections as it's way harder to find a cheap replacement for those. Ill try to use CJ/YJ tub sections where I can so the gauge and fit is correct.

I encourage those doing floors and such to look into the stamped replacement parts that are currently available for purchase. Yes, it's a few bucks more, but the end result is worth it...I mean your going to be cutting out, fitting and welding in either way so why not use the real deal vs flat metal.

Here's some pics of a floor board I fixed on my buddies YJ..

what we ordered


sorry I don't have a picture of the rot, but it was a little smaller than the patch and on each side.



ground, skimmed, and primmer.



then I used U Pol spray liner over it and I talked him into doing the door edge ....he liked it thank goodness!





underneath got seam sealer at the joint and undercoating.

 

[thirstybob]

THis is what the wife and I have been working on. Old farm JEEP that the PO left the carpet in it and rusted the floor out front and back. The tub is too far gone to save properly, so we took some 16ga sheet I had laying around and made our own floor pans. Cost = $time, cutting disks, and a spool of wire. We have done a ton of other work to it (she pretty much raided my parts stash and cleaned it out) and now she is driving it as a DD. Not bad for what we have into it.

went from this...

to this...with very little investment, and the Jeep will live on for a a while longer!

Nice work! What type of welder and wire are you using?

 

[HackFabrication]

At what point do you throw your hands up and swap out the tub??

When it looks like this:

Or, do you keep patching the tub to keep it as original as possible?

There's not enough sheet metal and welding wire to make it look like this:

 

[Hedgehog]

I think it would depend on the rust. Look at Hack's Jeep, the rust is in the seams and is chasing them to the point where it simply can't be dealt with anymore. If your tub is rusted in the floor and back that is relatively normal. But while you are working on those areas look at the rest of the body joints, if they are swelling or seperating there is a cancer in there eating away and your patch is temoprary at best. At that point it might be wise to scrap the tub and look for a replacement, possibly one from the desert southwest. At Willy's works a decent original tub can be gotten for less than $2,000, this is an approzimate number the final might be more money. I'm surprised to see how many fairly decent body's are still available down here.

I am curious about the liquid that supposidly converts rust to something else. I should know what it is, but I'm brain dead when it comes to chemistry. Some say it works some, not so much. I wonder if the stuff could be poured or painted on the rusted joints in such a way where it will whick into a rusty seam effectively killing the rust without needing to cut into an otherwise healthy panel.

 

[Petescj]

When you have to patch a patch.

 

[HackFabrication]

I am curious about the liquid that supposidly converts rust to something else. I wonder if the stuff could be poured or painted on the rusted joints in such a way where it will whick into a rusty seam effectively killing the rust without needing to cut into an otherwise healthy panel.

The problem is rusted steel has already compromised the structural integrity of whatever seam/joint it makes. The rust converters, most commonly Black Ferric Phosphate (Naval Jelly as one commercial product), won't do anything to restore the strength lost from oxidation (rust). As long as the base metal hasn't been perforated, using these products should provide some addition time to stave off the effects of nature. Especially in areas that cannot be readily ground or media blasted. But they aren't a substitute for proper body caulk, seam sealer, epoxy sealer, etc.

Better to cut back to clean metal and weld in another piece. Unfortunately, the automakers back 'in the day' didn't use the corrosion resistant steel that is commonly used in today's vehicles. So, the remaining steel will still need to be properly treated with modern sealers, primers, and paint.

The tub on my CJ5 was gone. The only parts that hadn't been rusted through were the grill and the hood. In the end, I replaced both of them with aftermarket parts, before going ahead with the bodywork.





Out of all the steel body parts, the only remaining original piece is the plate spot welded to the fire wall as re-enforcement for the steering and brake/clutch pedals:

 

[mylittlecj5]

Nice work! What type of welder and wire are you using?

I used my Hobart 190 welder with hobart solid core 0.030 wire.