4 Speed issue

[Hedgehog]

Let me search that one out a little bit. Rob had'em at Willy's Works. I just bought the joints as I did before, with a saw, a thread die and a drill it's fairly easy to do with just the parts. One thing for sure, the linkage metal is VERY hard. Without a little care you can easily destroy a thread die. I'll be back to you, that is if I can actually find them on line.


Edit #1: Here's a quick link:

http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Installation/122837.pdf

It's not for a stock CJ but if you look at it you will see what needs to be done.

Edit #2: While looking these up I was reminded why the '75 needed work. The stock joints were loose and tended to pop out of their sockets. I imagine healthy joints would be just about as smooth as the Heim units are. Heim joints won't pop out though.

 

[JR74CJ5]

Of course that indicated that I also don't push my CJ over extraordinary ground where frame flex tends to pop linkages.

That's why I went Hydraulic

A lot of people I talk to love the linkage simplicity though.

 

[Hedgehog]

JR - way back in the '80 I would have kept the hydraulic set-up if adaptors were available as they are now. An extra spring has been added to the '75 to keep the clutch ball in it's joint. While I don't push the hard stuff like rocks, the CJ has seen one wheel in the air many times while working sand washes and such. ...... Unfortunately they don't allow driving up sand washes anymore. Why I don't really know, the first rain washes away all signs of travel.

 

[gert]

http://www.morris4x4center.com/rugg...h-linkage-kit-stock-3-body-lift-16919-30.html


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[gert]

http://search-parts.morris4x4center.com/search?ts=m&w=CJ7+clutch+linkage&SEARCH=


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[Agent915]

Ha! Thought I was gone didn't you! No, I'm afraid that I've got another issue. I now know why the mount fell out. None of the holes line up with the mounting surface of the Transmission . I never checked that. It problem only had a single bolt in it, that's why it failed. When the skid plate came down and the mount fell out I thought, "ok, easy fix!" Well the new mount came in and I serviced the Transmission and Transfer Case and mocked it all up. When I went to bolt the mount and arm the holes were about a half of the diameter of the mounting holes off. Seems as though the mount assembly hits the back of the Transmission keeping it from aligning with the holes. NOTHING lines up! I could "hog-out" the slots in the mount and it would work, I think, but that goes against the grain with me. I want it RIGHT. Plus, should there be so much "play" in the torque arm bushings? When its assembled on to the arm, I thought it would be a snug fit. Anyway, I ordered a NP435 specific mount. It won't be in until Tuesday. Any thoughts, or suggestion would be greatly appreciated!

Danny

 

[Hedgehog]

No wonder the mount broke as it did. In this case a picture could be worth a thousand words. Is it the mount that doesn't line up with the Transmission holes or is it the holes in the cross member that don't line up? Of course my suggestion would be to drill new holes in the skid plate. But you also have parts with clearance problems. I take it that you can't just cut the plate to fit? It's clear that you've got a few issues to deal with. Ultimately you probably will have to try fabricating some sort of solution. I've seen where the torque arm bushing is not a tight fit, sort of loose, Maybe it's suppose to be like that. I'd be inclined to work out a shimmed bushing arrangement to tighten things up some.

 

[gert]

Lol welcome to owning a jeep, I think we all have problems with the skid plate never lining up


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[gert]

I think the torque arm bushing allows a little movement but is designed to restrict the total allowable movement


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[Hedgehog]

Just had a new torque bushing in my hot little hands. It is obvious that it is designed to allow movement about 1/4" up and down.

 

[Agent915]

Quick update. I got to thinking about the mount. Like I said earlier, I ordered another one today specifically for the NP 435, but I hadn't seen one. So I ran up to another parts supplier and asked if they could pull up a picture of an early Bronco, 4 speed Transmission mount. He taps on the keyboard, then spins the monitor around for me. The mount is very similar to the Jeep mount with one exception. The mounting holes are oblong front to back, where the Jeep's are side to side. This little difference my solve my problem! I asked if it was "in stock?" Of course the answer was NO, but he said he could have it by lunch tomorrow! No waiting until Tuesday! I know that I may still have to tweak the torque arm, but that's ok, I guess. My Fingers are crossed that this mount will get me back in business.

Danny

 

[Agent915]

Lol welcome to owning a jeep, I think we all have problems with the skid plate never lining up


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I know......isn't it great!

 

[Agent915]

Just had a new torque bushing in my hot little hands. It is obvious that it is designed to allow movement about 1/4" up and down.

I will post a few pics in the morning of mine. Maybe it's "normal"

 

[Torxhead]

I would think no more than 1/4" as the torque twisting effect would tend to tear at the main motor mounts.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

T'head is spot on...........
When I rebuilt my torque arm shaft. I used 1/2" threaded shaft and set the 'snubbers' so they could each just barely turn freely. That has worked very well now for many years.
I do run the M.O.R.E. engine and tranny mounts.

https://www.mountainoffroad.com/bomb-proof-motor-mount-kit-pre-99-cj-with-amc-6-cyl.html

https://www.mountainoffroad.com/transmission-mount-66-95-yj-cj.html

https://www.mountainoffroad.com/torque-arm-mount-72-95-yj-cj.html

Pricey-YES! Been in my Jeep for maybe 15 yrs now, with no issues at all.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Tear up the motor mounts .... maybe not. Remember the torque arm is 10" or so long so the actual movement at the mount would be far less than 1/4". All I can say is that I've had a stock torque arm and new bushing in my hand. Obviously the good engineers at AMC/jeep designed it that way. While Rob at Willys Works said he's seen where some jeepers have ground the tapered bushing down and shimmed it so there was a only slight amount of movement in the torque arm. Of course some folks could say that I'm just regurgitating information, but I did have the parts in my hand and did talk with a 40 year jeep mechanic about this issue. So, it wasn't some internet cowboy that the information came from.

 

[Agent915]

Ok, the Bronco mount was a "no-go!" Way too wide front to back, so I went back to the original style mount and did a little engineering and got it squared away. The next issue was the torque arm. With all the holes lined up, the t/a bolt wasn't anywhere close to a hole in the skid plate. A little measuring, test fitting, actually.....A LOT, and that issue has been resolved. Then came reinstalling the skid plate. ! That is so not a one man job!!! But after several attempts, one busted bolt, she's back together! I will probably have to go down front in the morning, if you know what I mean. Anyway, the results of the test drive......the "clanking" is still there. Maybe not as bad, but it's there. The scrubbing of the front shaft against the starter housing is cured, I think. I'm going to hit the drive shaft with a little paint tomorrow afternoon and drive it just to be sure. Anyway, you guys have been awesome in helping me with this and I truly appreciate it! Sorry about not posting pictures. I was trying to finish and was focused on putting everything back together! If you guys, or gals have any ideas on this clanking let me know. It's still only in 3rd gear.

Danny

 

[Hedgehog]

Transmissions don't exactly clank. They thump and essentially stop working correctly. A clank sounds more like thick sheet metal or a frame. Of course you coule be looking at a more obvious problem like a bad U-joint. They clunk, possibly only in an acceleration situation like hitting second gear.

A bad u-joint won't always look loose. They will sort of swell and the only way to know for sure is to remove the drive shaft and wiggle the thing around. Another relatively easy fix. While you are at it check for wobble in the drive shaft spline. That can thump as the shaft moves around. The only solution to that is replacing the spline at a drive shaft shop. A pricier solution.

 

[Agent915]

Transmissions don't exactly clank. They thump and essentially stop working correctly. A clank sounds more like thick sheet metal or a frame. Of course you coule be looking at a more obvious problem like a bad U-joint. They clunk, possibly only in an acceleration situation like hitting second gear.

A bad u-joint won't always look loose. They will sort of swell and the only way to know for sure is to remove the drive shaft and wiggle the thing around. Another relatively easy fix. While you are at it check for wobble in the drive shaft spline. That can thump as the shaft moves around. The only solution to that is replacing the spline at a drive shaft shop. A pricier solution.

Thanks Hedge! I was certainly hopeful that the mount would resolve this, but hey it had to be done either way. I'm still not convinced that its the tranny. It just doesn't sound that way. I've fragged an NV3500 before and this sounds nothing like that did. I was thinking about dropping the front shaft and driving it to see if I can maybe isolate the source of the noise. As far as the tranny goes, the fresh fluids made a positive difference in it. Much smoother. That NP 435 sure has a long stroke to its pattern! Definitely not a Camaro.

Danny

 

[gert]

Thanks Hedge! I was certainly hopeful that the mount would resolve this, but hey it had to be done either way. I'm still not convinced that its the tranny. It just doesn't sound that way. I've fragged an NV3500 before and this sounds nothing like that did. I was thinking about dropping the front shaft and driving it to see if I can maybe isolate the source of the noise. As far as the tranny goes, the fresh fluids made a positive difference in it. Much smoother. That NP 435 sure has a long stroke to its pattern! Definitely not a Camaro.



Danny

Lol defiantly not a short throw shifter


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