84' cj7 ,Howell TBI wont idle

[Redcolt88]

Hey Guys,

This is my first post on the forum so if I'm breaking the law please let me know. I have searched this question and wasn't able to find an answer.

As the title states, I have the howell tbi system on my jeep. It has a pretty new napa reman motor w/~1,000 miles on it. right now, the dang thing won't idle at all.

I replaced the fuel filter and fuel pump and my dad put a gauge on the supply line and said it was in spec. he is asleep right now or I'd ask him specifically what it was. Have not put the gauge on the return line.

I have a new steering column with new ignition wiring.

I could not find any vacuum lines out of place

I checked codes with my scanner and got code 44 o2 sensor lean, replaced the o2 sensor and the code is gone but did not affect the idle condition. now showing no codes.

I pulled my plugs and they were white, cleaned them up and put them back in.

Pulled my dist cap and found oil in the cap and in the base of the dist. I cleaned the cap and all the points and sprayed out the distributor as much as I could and gave it a go but no change.

This is where I'm at currently. I have zero clue how oil got into my dist but its there. Is it possible for oil to come up through the shaft somehow? Also should I just bail on this dist and get a new one? Have I missed something obvious?

 

[JR74CJ5]

Posi and Torxhead are really good with these. They'll probably jump in soon...

I hear Howell is awesome with customer service too and troubleshooting stuff...

Here is a thread where some pretty deep diagnosis occurs.

http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f2/no-spark-fuel-during-engine-crank-27500/

Not your exact question so not telling you to follow that threads instructions, just showing you how in depth the troubleshooting can be - you'll want some accurate tools for helping diagnose this...

Question to start with, is this a new mod you just performed? Has it ever ran with this set up yet? If you try to keep it running (ie give it more gas) will it run just not idle? Is it rough idle or just too low to keep running?

After cranking a bit, did you check if more oil is back in the distributor cap?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

:ww:

Let us know what Howell says.
LG

 

[Redcolt88]

This isn't a new install, it ran great for the first 1,000 miles. It will run rough if you give it throttle. If you crank it over it starts strong and then dies, won't stay running. I called Howell when I had the code but now that it's clear I suppose I need to call them back. I'll have to check to see if more oil is getting into the distributor or if it was a freak thing. At this point the Jeep has been sitting for about a year. My buddy told me to clean out the tbi to see if the injectors are clogged a little. This problem was present a year ago and that's why it's been parked. So I will clean the tbi and then I'm going to try to run it and pull plug wires off to see what it does...

 

[Torxhead]

So, I take it that you are getting around 10-14 p.s.i. for fuel pressure? The best place to check fuel pressure is right before the fuel inlet on the throttle body. Check the spark plug burn to determine if it is a lean or rich burn. With a code 44 the plugs should be pretty clean. If you can't get it to idle as it is set, what rpm will it idle at? You do know how to adjust the idle speed and fuel pressure on the Rochester 220 throttle body right?

 

[Redcolt88]

I'm pretty sure he said it was at 14 psi when he checked it, and he checked it right at the inlet into the throttle body. I don't know how to adjust the fuel pressure and idle.

you have to wind it up to about 1800 - 2000 rpms to get it to keep running.

the plugs were fine, just a little white, I'm assuming from being lean?

 

[PistolDave]

Does sound like a fuel pressure problem, but also could be that one of your injectors is not firing. Best way to check pressure is to plumb a fuel pressure gauge into the supply line close to the throttle body. Fuel pressure should be relatively constant even under a heavy load. Watch the injector spray pattern with the air cleaner off to make sure both injectors are actually firing. My 5.7 TBI SBC runs great with a constant 11.5 psi at idle or wide open throttle. As long as your fuel pressure is above 9 psi and is steady you should be ok on that.

 

[Torxhead]

There might be an issue with that distributor, if oil came up thru the bottom, there could be something screwed up in the distributor causing an ignition problem and not anything due to the f.i. A skipped timing gear could also be an issue. Just how did this problem start?

 

[mriplaybass]

There might be an issue with that distributor, if oil came up thru the bottom, there could be something screwed up in the distributor causing an ignition problem and not anything due to the f.i. A skipped timing gear could also be an issue. Just how did this problem start?

Did the oil get all the way up to the rotor? You might want to give the inside of the distributor and the cap a shot of carburetor or parts cleaner and try it again. (after fixing the leak, naturally!)

 

[Redcolt88]

sorry to leave you guys hanging, got a lot going on ATM including the cj. I will be working on the jeep tonight though so I will post about it after.

The problem started last year. This was previously my dads jeep, it now belongs to me. last summer the jeep sat for the whole month of june (was driven only about 1,000mi previously), in july we went to install a new suspension and when i went to start it it wouldn't idle. I tried to drive it around the block (thinking maybe it would smooth out) but couldn't get the whole way. came back and got it in the garage, installed the new suspension and then it sat till last week.

 

[Torxhead]

If you still have the original distributor with a lot of miles on it a replacement might be the answer. In my opinion, the oem motorcraft distributor was pretty good especially with the Team Rush upgrade. There are remanufactured versions, I have had issues with rebuilt ones.

 

[Belizean]

By now you could have some really bad gas in that tank also

 

[Redcolt88]

Ok, gents.

I made a huge mistake. The first time I pulled the air cleaner off to make sure the injectors were spraying properly, I did so from the drivers side of the jeep. I only looked at the injector closer to me and neglected to check the side closer to the motor. The injector closer to the motor is not spraying fuel at all, not even a small drip. I'm pretty frustrated that I overlooked something a basic as this, but I suppose its a lesson to be learned. Moving on, when I noticed one injector wasn't spraying I switched the injector leads and the problem followed the bad leads and the one injector that was spraying, stopped spraying and the other one started. So I'm not actually sure what to do at this point other than call Troy tomorrow.

 

[jzak]

Ok, gents.

I made a huge mistake. The first time I pulled the air cleaner off to make sure the injectors were spraying properly, I did so from the drivers side of the jeep. I only looked at the injector closer to me and neglected to check the side closer to the motor. The injector closer to the motor is not spraying fuel at all, not even a small drip. I'm pretty frustrated that I overlooked something a basic as this, but I suppose its a lesson to be learned. Moving on, when I noticed one injector wasn't spraying I switched the injector leads and the problem followed the bad leads and the one injector that was spraying, stopped spraying and the other one started. So I'm not actually sure what to do at this point other than call Troy tomorrow.

Welcome to the club! Good to see some young blood interested in CJ's.

Congrats on getting it worked out. I've also got a Howell TBI and I would recommend calling back tech support. They've been really helpful with my own idle speed problems.

I would follow the bad injector lead up through the wiring harness. Its possible it may have gotten disconnected somewhere. My CJ's previous owner did a **** poor job splicing in the Howell harness, resulting in a lot of problems. I eventually just rewired the whole thing.

Also get a volt meter, and see if the bad lead is reading anything.

At least you now know the cause of the problem. For Jeep owners that's well worth having a celebratory beer!

 

[Redcolt88]

Thanks Jzak,

I feel lucky to have a CJ. My ol' man always says they were the last "real" jeeps haha. TJs are really nice and really capable with minimal mods but I like a leaf sprung set up and a straight 6. Barbie never drove a CJ.

Also, I just noticed we have the same power train

 

[Torxhead]

You might want to trace down that wiring looking for a break of some kind. I am not really sure if running on just one injector will give you the problem you described. Calling Troy, is still a good idea though.

 

[jzak]

Thanks Jzak,

I feel lucky to have a CJ. My ol' man always says they were the last "real" jeeps haha. TJs are really nice and really capable with minimal mods but I like a leaf sprung set up and a straight 6. Barbie never drove a CJ.

Also, I just noticed we have the same power train

I live by the belief that if you can't strike up a conversation with you fellow man over your vehicle, then what's the point. Modern Jeeps are just appliances to get you from point A to point B. The owners have no sense of adventure. When was the last time you saw a JK or even a TJ with its top and doors off? Almost never! It could be the most beautiful day of the year, and they're sitting there boxed in with the AC going like they're in a Honda Accord. Most of them don't even adhere to the Jeep wave. Which is unforgivable:


The Jeep Wave

 

[Redcolt88]

OK update time,

I called troy about the injector thing and he said check the fuses, if they are good, then its the ECU. Sure enough one of the fuses was burnt out. Replaced it and we have two functioning injectors but still no improvement. At this point I said screw it and got a reman ECU and swaped the proms. I slapped it in and on the first bump the starter blew up. Went and got a starter and fired the motor. It ran smoother than butter. For 30 seconds... Over all when I fire it now as long as I give it gas it runs really smooth, but still wont idle. I put the fuel pressure gauge back on and I was only getting 10 psi. should 10 psi be enough to keep it running even if its not running that great?
Over all it doesn't feel like ignition at this point because it runs smooth if i can get it going. In my super Limited experience, ignition problems make it run very rough and clunky. maybe I'm wrong, I still haven't addressed the oil/dist issue. At this point I'm starting to get a little frustrated. I know I'm not at the end of the rope as far as things to check but Just-Empty-Every-Pocket is really starting to get to the empty part.

Update 2: I noticed a small amount of fuel leaking from the tbi where the throttle linkage connects the the butterflys (dont know the tech term), it seeps out through the torsion spring on the drivers side of the tb. bleh.

 

[Redcolt88]

so today I'm checking voltages as per the howell trouble shooting guide. its telling me to check voltage at the "ecm fuse block" for spec. well the only fuse block I see is the same one that the injectors are wired to and the installation manual does not specifically list, or label an "ecm fuse block" but only refers to them as separate things. So assuming this was the correct block to check, that is a 4 volt drop between the battery and the power going into the fuse block. I'm really starting to wish i had installed this system myself, not i would have done a better job, just so I would know were everything is at

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Clean BOTH battery clamps/terminals and check all of your GND connections also. Especially the battery to body GND. You may have poor conductivity somewhere in your circuit.
How old is your battery?
LG