best alternator for plow

[madtom]

I need a high output alternator for the plow on my CJ. What is the best kind, price, voltage, etc.

 

[rushpowersystems]

Use two alternators, second one turns on only when you are plowing, you battery, alternator, and plow will last much longer.

I would run 16 volts, your battery or battery bank will handle it and the plow will love it. Here is a link to more info on a good single alternator option, this about a $900.00 set up.

I give 20% discount for members of this site. If you need more info feel free to let me know I will be happy to help you.

 

[madtom]

just want high output bolt on replacment.good info but jeep not worth high dollar system

 

[rushpowersystems]

I would say go with a CS 144 (GM number 1101183) you can get them cheap and easy and you can push them to 250 amp. It will bolt in buy you may need to bend the top bracket up a bit because it is larger than the stock SI. The cheapest way to go is build your stock alternator to AMC 150 amp, the kit is $100.00 and it includes everything you will need as well as new bearings and brushes, all parts are extra heavy duty. Just keep in mind the alternator cant produce over 50 amp at an idle so you will need to keep the RPM’s up go get good power out of it.

 

[John Strenk]

I've been plowing with my jeep for since the 1970's and at most all you will need is a dual battery setup with a 90 amp alternator off a Monte Carlo. They are just a plug and play improvement. No modifications necessary other to insure the plug is pointing in the right direction.

Plows usually only run for a few seconds at a time and the battery is usually all you need for the momentary current rushes. It's not like you are pulling on a winch for a long continuous time.

Now if you're running around 7k watts of light bar and semaphores worthy of some airport approach, maybe a big huge alternator is a good idea.

 

[CJ]

Hey John Strenk and welcome to our site! Great to have you here!

 

[86 CJ]

I've been plowing with my jeep for since the 1970's and at most all you will need is a dual battery setup with a 90 amp alternator off a Monte Carlo. They are just a plug and play improvement. No modifications necessary other to insure the plug is pointing in the right direction.

Plows usually only run for a few seconds at a time and the battery is usually all you need for the momentary current rushes. It's not like you are pulling on a winch for a long continuous time.

Now if you're running around 7k watts of light bar and semaphores worthy of some airport approach, maybe a big huge alternator is a good idea.

Hey John,

welcome to the sight. Thanks again for helping me out last week on teh other forum with my Myers Plow light situation. The new plugs for the lights should be in the mail when I get home, just in time to setup for this weekend( Let's hope)

Also, Will I be OK with my meyers lights, Plow, Heater, windshield wipers going with a 90amp alternator adn a Yellow Top Battery??

I have not tested everything out yet.

John

 

[rushpowersystems]

Here in Salt Lake City we know a little about plowing snow.

Your stock alternator is a 10SI Lester numbers 7272, 7273, or 7128 (depending on which engine/option you have), it has between 53 amps and 78 amp at 4000 RPM and about 10 to 20 amps at 800 RPM.

The 90 amp is a 12SI Lester number 7294, it is 90 amps at 4000 RPM and about 25 amps at 800 RPM. The le cheap-o parts house CS144 is 120 amp at 3500 RPM and about 70 amps at 800 RPM. The plug only goes in one way on the SI and the CS series.

Your stock charging wire is about 5 feet and is designed for 70 amps, you can get away with running it with more current for a wile but it will fail eventually.

You list about 70 amps without the plow, just add up your fuses. An electrically derived plow IS a winch motor, they pull between 70 amps and 300 amps depending on the condition of the equipment and how much you are using it.

Yellow tops are designed for playing the stereo at the park with the engine off or when you are in the fishing boat trolling around the lake. Red tops are more efficient for things like plows, winches, or starter motors.

An alternator wants stability, when you add 2 batteries without an isolator you make the system look more stable than it is and the alternator puts out less power. If you use an isolator you will loose about a volt across the two terminals so 14.5 volts in is 13.5 volts out, so lets say you have a total of 1500 watts with everything on, at 14.00 volts you need 107.14 amps, but at 13.00 volts you need 115.38 amps. Now this is with the alternator cold after it heats up and it will run hot with the extra load you could drop to as low as 13.8 output now you are only giving the batteries 12.8 volts. So the solution most people go with is a solenoid if you do so be sure to keep a fire extinguisher handy for when the one battery dumps the load into the other and the system explodes.

As you can see I am not talking about antidotal “in my day” stuff here, just facts. Its all a mater of math and physics, pull more power out than you put in and you will have problems, have problems and you don’t plow, don’t plow and you don’t get paid. That is why we do it right the first time.

Very soon we will be posting a how to rebuild you own alternator, just been a little busy around here.

 

[86 CJ]

Thanks for all the advice. It sucks that two years ago my Red top crapped out and I upgraded it to a Yellow top and now you are saying that it's not the right one I got my alternator rebuilt and apgraded it a bit as well. Will I need to use antoher yello top batter to have two in series or can I use a cheaper batter. Thos things are not cheap plus everything I will need to mae it all work. With no snow here in MD, I just keep dumping $$$$ into this plow setup again..

 

[rushpowersystems]

The fact is there is a lot of BS in the battery world, it comes down to gel or wet. If all you are going to do is plow snow and you are not going to launch it off a snow bank or don’t think you will ever roll it, then go to the parts house or sears and get a decent wet battery ($75 to $100)

I run a diehard year round but when I go off road I switch to a Odyssey which is a flat plate gel, I do this because at extreme angles the wet batter can leak and a gel will not. IMO the red, yellow, and blue tops have had very poor quality since they were bought out.

From the testing we have done all gel batteries will perform about the same with the exception of the Kinetik battery, lets put it this way, the drunken sailors in DC would say “wow that is an expensive battery”, however you get what you pay for.

You have two choices, get an alternator that can stay ahead of the power needs or add a second battery, the second battery option is a band-aid fix because you are dividing the lack of power between two batteries.

Were I forced into the second option I would get rid of the Yellow and go with 2 cheap gels or wet batteries depending on my usage. The yellow top is fantastic at powering lower amperage items for long periods, the red is designed to power larger loads for short periods of time and that is more like what you will be doing.

The yellow will work its just not the best way to go, and you could run a red and yellow together due to the fact that your alternator is such a dinosaur that it probably will not be effected by the differences, although I would never try that with a MOSFET regulator like that which is found in the CS units.

If you are missing the snow bring a truck, we have lots, you can have all you want

 

[86 CJ]

What am I looking at spending with I higher AMP Alternator??

John​

 

[jswatson0917]

From the testing we have done all gel batteries will perform about the same with the exception of the Kinetik battery, lets put it this way, the drunken sailors in DC would say “wow that is an expensive battery”, however you get what you pay for.

There are drunkin Sailors in DC
Hey I resemble er ah I mean I resent that remark View attachment 2207:wasted:

 

[rushpowersystems]

No offence to drunken sailors, at least they know when the pirate chest is empty!

 

[rushpowersystems]

Well I would guess the parts houses are going to hit you for $100 to $130 for a rebuilt, they probably will not know the difference between the two so you could probably give then your old one. The one I listed is the first generation CS144 its better than what you have but not the best. I would not go with it if you are going to be in the mud. As an unofficial site sponsor I can get the first gen to you for the site discount price of $140 normally $170 and I can do the second gen 140 amp for $185.00, normally $250.00

the second generation alternator is a much better design and it will handle the snow and mud much better plus it has 20 more amps. I would also recommend the adjustable external regulator. Dial down to 14 volts when not plowing to help with MPG and crank it up to 16 volts when you are plowing, this will make the plow work more efficiently, and you can do this from the drivers seat on the fly. This adds $40 to the total, keep in mind I bought the regulator at a special price, I have 11 left at that package price once they are gone it will go up to an additional $80.00 for the regulator. Both units I list here are 100% new.

 

[John Strenk]

Well I would guess the parts houses are going to hit you for $100 to $130 for a rebuilt, they probably will not know the difference between the two so you could probably give then your old one. The one I listed is the first generation CS144 its better than what you have but not the best. I would not go with it if you are going to be in the mud. As an unofficial site sponsor I can get the first gen to you for the site discount price of $140 normally $170 and I can do the second gen 140 amp for $185.00, normally $250.00

the second generation alternator is a much better design and it will handle the snow and mud much better plus it has 20 more amps. I would also recommend the adjustable external regulator. Dial down to 14 volts when not plowing to help with MPG and crank it up to 16 volts when you are plowing, this will make the plow work more efficiently, and you can do this from the drivers seat on the fly. This adds $40 to the total, keep in mind I bought the regulator at a special price, I have 11 left at that package price once they are gone it will go up to an additional $80.00 for the regulator. Both units I list here are 100% new.

This does seem a much better option than the $900.00 setup. For $900 I could buy a beater F-250 and plow with that. Wait, I did do that for a couple of years.

Now if you had a sealed alternator that would keep out the salt spray as CJ nicely put the I6 alternator so low, the spray off the wheels hit's it most of the time. I found a Bosch unit designed to be submerged in an artical but never found the unit for sale anyplace. I've tried milk cartons and other things to keep them clean but still ventilated but now I found an OBA setup that puts the alternator on the top of the engine. well out of the way of salt spray.

The adjustable regulator sounds interesting however at 16 volts most in dash lights seem to get black on the inside from the filament burning off. Good excuse I suppose to go to LED lighting also.

Can you explain a little more about two batteries in parallel causing less output. I've been running this setup for years without any problems other than corroded out alternators. Most of my failures have been corroded windings terminals, regulator. Usually I can get going with some innovative field windings as the brushes and windings seem to hold up pretty well to salt. But the regulator goes all to hell in 2 to 3 years of plowing 8 to 10 hours a night 3-4 nights a week.

I like the idea of two separate batteries but never liked an isolator as a single point of failure idea to much. And the thought of hooking a fully charged battery onto a fully discharged battery is scary. Even wet cells have a limit on how fast you should charge a battery and I would be just as worried about blowing all that acid all over the place as well a fire.

All my fuses add up to 180 amps

20 Dome light
20 Park and Tail
30 Hazard/stop
3 Instrument lights
15 Electronic cluster
20 Wiper
15 Turn Signal
10 Acc
25 Fan heater
25 Seatbelt
--------------------------
183 Total

But when I put an ampmeter on it, Looks like I draw about 30-40 amps with lights, heater, Strobes, wipers running. I'll have to put a ampmeter on my plow some day but with dual batteries the head light s don't even dim although the voltmeter drops a couple of volts. Not nearly as bad as a winch or starting the engine. But then the voltmeteri s on a branch circuit not directly across the battery.

I have a Meyers M-47E lift with a 7.5 foot power angle plow. The motor on this certainly doesn't look like a long running winch or starter motor. I think those came on the M-60's or something like that.

 

[86 CJ]

Thanks for the help guys. I actually had a great weekend. MD got a good storm over teh 2" they were calling for So I got some work. I plowed for 11 hours on saturday and then hit a couple driveways on Sunday and had NO problems. I only heard my alternator belt squeel once the whole time, but I had just fired it up. I ran the lights, heater on dash and plow together off and on all day and with my rebuilt higher amp Alternator I got done years ago and the yellow top Battery id did better then expected...

Now I have a bigger issue on my hands I just lost all oil pressure on my mechanical guage when driving to the carwash Yikes

I have to start looking at it today with more snow on the supossably tomorrow..

 

[rushpowersystems]

Well lets back up, your post was “best alternator of plow” the $900 is the best, its what we install in the plow equipment at the ski resorts and we don’t hear back form them for 5 to 7 years. Now this option is quite possibly the best value, big difference. You could buy a F250 and if you are lucky you can find one with the dual alternator option, but if not you are in the same boat, the Ford has a higher amperage alternator but it also has more electrical load.

There is no such thing as a sealed alternator, there is elements resistance units that were designed for use in mining. We use them in desert racing and mud bog use, but there again you are back at $1K. Back in the day we built aluminum shield around the alternator on the CJ, will not solve the problem but it will dramatically reduce the effects. Been so long since we have built one I don’t even know if we have a templet but they are quite easy to make.

We have never rebuilt a Jeep gauge without seeing the melted internals around the indicators lights, the fact is lower voltage results in higher amperage, that creates heat. Higher voltage improves everything to a point, 12 volt batteries cant handle anything over 17 volts. Car makers shot for around 14 volts because the higher the voltage the more HP required to turn the alternator the less MPG.

This is one that is going in my blog, dual batteries work, that is a fact. Just like an artificial heart works, but it is not like the real thing. When you add 2 batteries you are splitting the load between the two. You have a larger voltage pool so everything looks more balanced. An alternator never “turns off” it only changes its output (duty cycle), it works like this. The set point is 14 volts and the system has 13 volts therefore I need to produce enough amps to feed the load and return the voltage to 14. With 2 batteries it will not give the alternator an accurate signal as to what is going on in the electrical system, due to the fact that it looks more balanced than it is. When you build a system like that you replace batteries faster and alternators faster because they do not work together as well as a single set up. So again I am going back to what is the best way to do it, not saying don’t run dual batteries, if you are on a budget it is a great way to go, just understand it is not the best way to do it. You are correct on wet charge rates but gel batteries are odd little things, they like a lot of amperage and voltage. You can take a red top that has sit for a year and is down to 1 volt or less, directly attach a good red top to the discharged red top and let is sit for an hour, then charge both batteries to 12.5 at rest volts. Many times you can save the dead red top, cant do that with a wet battery. BTW we play with volts for a living, don’t try this at home unless you know what you are doing.


One thing to keep in mind about the load is we are talking about max load, or the point at which the fuse will blow, volts and amps work in a teeter-todder effect, when amps go up voltage drops, this can have a cascading effect, the lower the voltage your system has the higher the amperage will be in the items you listed. I recommend using the fuses as a guide so that you will not have the alternator at full power all the time, and that will make the alternator last longer.

If it is electric it is a motor, it has an armature and field coil, there are many variations in how they look but they all basically work the same, and have the same power needs, newer units are more efficient.

Let me know if I have been more confusing that clarifying.

 

[John Strenk]

Well lets back up, your post was “best alternator of plow” the $900 is the best, its what we install in the plow equipment at the ski resorts and we don’t hear back form them for 5 to 7 years. Now this option is quite possibly the best value, big difference. You could buy a F250 and if you are lucky you can find one with the dual alternator option, but if not you are in the same boat, the Ford has a higher amperage alternator but it also has more electrical load.

You're right, he did ask for the best.

There is no such thing as a sealed alternator, there is elements resistance units that were designed for use in mining. We use them in desert racing and mud bog use, but there again you are back at $1K. Back in the day we built aluminum shield around the alternator on the CJ, will not solve the problem but it will dramatically reduce the effects. Been so long since we have built one I don’t even know if we have a templet but they are quite easy to make.

I'll have to get you the picture of it. It was kinda cool. I think I saw it in Machine Design but maybe it never went into production.

We have never rebuilt a Jeep gauge without seeing the melted internals around the indicators lights, the fact is lower voltage results in higher amperage, that creates heat. Higher voltage improves everything to a point, 12 volt batteries cant handle anything over 17 volts. Car makers shot for around 14 volts because the higher the voltage the more HP required to turn the alternator the less MPG.

I was talking about at higher voltages the filament actually gets hotter evaporating the filament onto the inside of the glass. Eventually the filament looses enough tungsten that it breaks apart. You can sometimes tell is a charging system was out of control by looking at the bulbs and see it they are no longer clear on the inside. Of course age will have a lot to do with it also

How do you figure a bulb gets hotter at lower voltages? Last time I checked, Ohms Law has not been through the repeal process yet and is not just a good Idea but the law. Last time I checked more voltage into a fixed resistance will result into a more current I=E/R More current, more watts, more heat. now the leads supplying the power to the bulb may heat up a tiny tiny amount.

Most of the damaged speedos I worked on with melted filters was from wrong bulb size Either shape or wattage.

Now not to confuse anyone, running something like a Starter or winch motor at low voltages will cause the device to draw more current and heat up and destroy itself because the device is trying to draw more current than it can handle at those voltages. Voltage is good, I like voltage. It has potential! However reducing the voltage to a light bulb will not cause the bulb to heat up higher. Try taping a thermocouple to a light and measure the heat output.

This is one that is going in my blog, dual batteries work, that is a fact. Just like an artificial heart works, but it is not like the real thing. When you add 2 batteries you are splitting the load between the two. You have a larger voltage pool so everything looks more balanced. An alternator never “turns off” it only changes its output (duty cycle), it works like this. The set point is 14 volts and the system has 13 volts therefore I need to produce enough amps to feed the load and return the voltage to 14. With 2 batteries it will not give the alternator an accurate signal as to what is going on in the electrical system, due to the fact that it looks more balanced than it is. When you build a system like that you replace batteries faster and alternators faster because they do not work together as well as a single set up. So again I am going back to what is the best way to do it, not saying don’t run dual batteries, if you are on a budget it is a great way to go, just understand it is not the best way to do it. You are correct on wet charge rates but gel batteries are odd little things, they like a lot of amperage and voltage. You can take a red top that has sit for a year and is down to 1 volt or less, directly attach a good red top to the discharged red top and let is sit for an hour, then charge both batteries to 12.5 at rest volts. Many times you can save the dead red top, cant do that with a wet battery. BTW we play with volts for a living, don’t try this at home unless you know what you are doing.

No, I wouldn't, I like my eye's. I fly RC and I learned a lot about discharge rates vs. charge rates on the different battery types Nicads vs MiNH vs LiPO. There are no shortcuts here.

One thing to keep in mind about the load is we are talking about max load, or the point at which the fuse will blow, volts and amps work in a teeter-todder effect, when amps go up voltage drops, this can have a cascading effect, the lower the voltage your system has the higher the amperage will be in the items you listed. I recommend using the fuses as a guide so that you will not have the alternator at full power all the time, and that will make the alternator last longer.

That's what neat about these forum, we can read about different opinions about things.

If it is electric it is a motor, it has an armature and field coil, there are many variations in how they look but they all basically work the same, and have the same power needs, newer units are more efficient.

Let me know if I have been more confusing that clarifying.

Nah, just the light bulb getting hotter at lower voltage I have to disagree with. Good to know that duals are OK as long as you select the right duals.

I think it's awesome for vendors to take an active part in these forums. So many hide behind a wall and never explain things directly to users.

 

[John Strenk]

..

Now I have a bigger issue on my hands I just lost all oil pressure on my mechanical guage when driving to the carwash Yikes

I have to start looking at it today with more snow on the supossably tomorrow..

I hope it's just a kinked hose.

 

[86 CJ]

I hope it's just a kinked hose.

It was the oil filter...I first took the clear line off the oil guage to teh engine block and blew it out, was not getting much oil out but some, then drained the oil and changed teh fileter, got it back to 60 psi, had time to install the radio back in it for some plowing tunes...I am a happy camper again..