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Chewed the camshaft gear...

Chewed the camshaft gear...
As far as the distributor gear, it looked good still.

Im not sure about the shimming / up and down movement... :confused:

It looks worse (cam gear) in one area than the rest (id say about a 1/3rd of the gear) the rest of it is real sharp toothed.

Ill post some more pictures and stuff soon.

IO no dont have one. Could get one, but i heated that gear up to 350 degrees and tride driving it on with a 5lb minisledge (yes i know... Stupid...) so thinking cutting may be best/only option
 
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JR74CJ5 said:
As far as the distributor gear, it looked good still.

Im not sure about the shimming / up and down movement... :confused:

It looks worse (cam gear) in one area than the rest (id say about a 1/3rd of the gear) the rest of it is real sharp toothed.

Ill post some more pictures and stuff soon.

IO no dont have one. Could get one, but i heated that gear up to 350 degrees and tride driving it on with a 5lb minisledge (yes i know... Stupid...) so thinking cutting may be best/only option
Click to expand...


JR
:)Was just wondering if there was any excessive play up and down on that distributor shaft, more so was the Distributor gear fully engaged to the cam gear and not bouncing up & down on it?
I know were talking about whether or not both parts were properly heat treated so they could run together............One school of thought is they both should have the same Rockwell hardness on the C scale.
Take a file lightly on that Cam gear and the distributor gear just to get a feel on how hard they both may be.
:D:D:D:D
 
Yeah i get what u meant... But i dont know how to check it exactly... With it installed do i just attempt to move the rotor portion up and down? And or do i test fit with gear marking compound?

When i bout the pertronix upgrade for original distributor they gave a feeler gague measurment for lift between pickup and rotor. So i shimmed it down(up?) but with this dui it never said anything about shimming... So not sure ;)

What you you recommend bud?

:chug:
Jr
 
JR74CJ5 said:
Yeah i get what u meant... But i dont know how to check it exactly... With it installed do i just attempt to move the rotor portion up and down? And or do i test fit with gear marking compound?

When i bout the pertronix upgrade for original distributor they gave a feeler gague measurment for lift between pickup and rotor. So i shimmed it down(up?) but with this dui it never said anything about shimming... So not sure ;)

What you you recommend bud?

:chug:
Jr
Click to expand...

JR

:)Just grab the distributor by the housing and see how much clearance there is between the gear and the housing at the base.........normally there is a washer between those two parts and normally around .030 to .060 thousands 1/16th of an inch is about all that's necessary there
I am just fishing for reasons other than the heat treat theory that may have caused the damage to that gear. If for some reason it was not fully engaged be it the housing was physically loose in the block or excessive clearance at the shaft is just a question............to find answers.
:D:D:D:D
 
JR, do you know what Prussian blue is?

and I do not mean the band!

It is used to check the contact patterns of gears. I think I would get a tube and put it on the distributor gear when you install it. give it a couple of turns with no coil wire and pull the distributor and look at the gear.

You should see a contact mark at about the center end to end and in and out. I don't know what you can do if it is too deep or shallow but you may find it to your advantage to shim the distributor out.

I like the yellow /orange marker you get in R&P kits better than the blue. it is easier to see the marks.:cool:

Whether you can adjust it or not it would be interesting to see where it was making contact.
 
JR74CJ5 said:
Yeah i get what u meant... But i dont know how to check it exactly... With it installed do i just attempt to move the rotor portion up and down? And or do i test fit with gear marking compound?

When i bout the pertronix upgrade for original distributor they gave a feeler gague measurment for lift between pickup and rotor. So i shimmed it down(up?) but with this dui it never said anything about shimming... So not sure ;)

What you you recommend bud?

:chug:
Jr
Click to expand...

JR

:)I was just reading your post again and it sounds like you took out an original distributor and replaced it with another complete distributor????????
If so , see if the length below the distributor base that contacts the block is the same length down to the gear pin and the end of that shaft...........
:D:D:D:D
 
JR74CJ5 said:
Yeah i get what u meant... But i dont know how to check it exactly... With it installed do i just attempt to move the rotor portion up and down? And or do i test fit with gear marking compound?

When i bout the pertronix upgrade for original distributor they gave a feeler gague measurment for lift between pickup and rotor. So i shimmed it down(up?) but with this dui it never said anything about shimming... So not sure ;)

What you you recommend bud?

JR,

:):)Been poking around on the Internet a little and although I am well versed on Chrysler based Hemi's and Chevy's what I know about AMC's is not really much except that all engines are based on the same basic principals & designs.

Seem's the AMC V-8 engine family the Gen 3 tall deck AMC 304 's and up( not sure if yours falls into this category) had or still has Oiling problems...............
One of the issues is the front mounted oil pump starves the number 7-8 main / rod bearings and the other which you should find interesting is that it also starves the CAM & Distributor Gearof oil!..............There are two fixes for this and the one that would help the lack of oil at the Cam & distributor gear is a process by drilling a bypass hole in the front cover that leads directly to the effected area...............Tell me about your engine? I am assuming front mounted distributor and aluminum front cover with the oil pump enclosed and driven by the end of the distributor shaft???
:D:D:D:D
Click to expand...
 
tarry99 said:
Seem's the AMC V-8 engine family the Gen 3 tall deck AMC 304 's and up( not sure if yours falls into this category) had or still has Oiling problems...............
One of the issues is the front mounted oil pump starves the number 7-8 main / rod bearings and the other which you should find interesting is that it also starves the CAM & Distributor Gearof oil!..............There are two fixes for this and the one that would help the lack of oil at the Cam & distributor gear is a process by drilling a bypass hole in the front cover that leads directly to the effected area...............Tell me about your engine? I am assuming front mounted distributor and aluminum front cover with the oil pump enclosed and driven by the end of the distributor shaft???
:D:D:D:D
Click to expand...

Yes I had been reading on this too.

Your end statement is completely and exactly correct. "I am assuming front mounted distributor and aluminum front cover with the oil pump enclosed and driven by the end of the distributor shaft???"
Yup it is!
 
JR74CJ5 said:
Yes I had been reading on this too.

Your end statement is completely and exactly correct. "I am assuming front mounted distributor and aluminum front cover with the oil pump enclosed and driven by the end of the distributor shaft???"
Yup it is!
Click to expand...

JR,

:)Just food for thought...........hard to say whether something could run that way for several months and then fail and be caused by either heat treat or lack of oil ???

Do you have the engine apart now?

I would be looking at that oil pump and see what condition it is in? Being driven by the distributor and the cam gear if the pump got some debris inside it, there is a chance that it may have put enough resistance on the gear set to kill the Cam gear.
Kinda of the Chicken or egg theory as in what came first?

I'm around these Race Motors all the time so I do become somewhat anal about part failures even if they are just old Jeep parts.
On some of our motors with MSD crank triggers we run bronze gears on the distributor and never see a failure.
:D:D:D:D
:chug:
 
MN CJ7 said:
Tarry is correct there are oil issues/improvements for the AMC V8 Line. Horsepower TV had a 360 engine project on, and they addressed the oil port mods that should be done and the weak area.... all on video..... link to online TV is below for you to click on.

Jeep Engine 360 Build on Horse Power TV
http://www.powerblocktv.com/player/show_player.php?ep_show=HP&ep_num=HP2012-04
shows the oil modifications, power parts, and dyno runs
I would not do all the cam work they did, but most rest pretty good
Click to expand...


My brother told me about this early this week! Was looking for the link (not hard, but skimmed...) thanks! :D

MN CJ7 said:
Anyone building a AMC V8 better be aware of these or should not be building it. Poster seems to have switched the Prestolite, memory right, or it was the points dist... but switch the weak prestolite.... Poster, JR, did use some of the BEST parts on the market and used the ....... DUI or MSD......HEI Distributor Parts and still had issue & faillure. So just be carefull out there, rest drill your dist gear and read the cautions theads..

My understanding, JR Dist was changed and the engine has been running for sometime. So I do not think this is a lack of oil issue, for dist, time set, or front cylinder, but still should be considered... Lack of oil would be both gears, cam & dist, with damage???, guess on my part....

This engine was running for some time, and was just a change to DUI HEI Dist to replace the weak & problems with the Prestolite Distributors...... Is this correct JR???
Click to expand...

Whole story behind distributor swap (short version):

  1. timing kept getting out of whack on what I assume was the original distributor (not sure presto etc?) points style. Adjusted multiple times, but still would jump out of time.
  2. Replaced points with a pertronix mod to steady timing. Fount upon install the screw holding down one side of the points and not pertronix, was stripped out. (never noticed as it was not the one I'd loosen while adjusting the points.)
  3. Came upon a Sugar Momma with some cash (lol hope she don't read this... :D) and decided on what i thought was a huge upgrade. Consisted of:

And some unrelated parts. Since have done a lot of other stuff... But this was in approx beginning of October... Gear found chewed and failed week before memorial day 2012 (just few weeks back.)


If you check the link, the gear metal is clearly disclosed and Steel.

This was my fault, not DUI's, Summit's or any member of this forums... :o;)

:chug:

~ JR
​
 
tarry99 said:
JR,

:)Just food for thought...........hard to say whether something could run that way for several months and then fail and be caused by either heat treat or lack of oil ???

Do you have the engine apart now?

I would be looking at that oil pump and see what condition it is in? Being driven by the distributor and the cam gear if the pump got some debris inside it, there is a chance that it may have put enough resistance on the gear set to kill the Cam gear.
Kinda of the Chicken or egg theory as in what came first?

I'm around these Race Motors all the time so I do become somewhat anal about part failures even if they are just old Jeep parts.
On some of our motors with MSD crank triggers we run bronze gears on the distributor and never see a failure.
:D:D:D:D
:chug:
Click to expand...

Yes did check out the pump assembly pretty thouroughly. It all looked fine. The walls were not scored nor the gears chewed or disfigured at all... There was a spot on the inside that looked as if the timing chain had hit the guard around one of the (crank or cam) areas but the chain showed no wear or chunks, and the play was acceptable, so I assume it happened in its previous life (PO) :cool::confused:
 
JR74CJ5 said:
My brother told me about this early this week! Was looking for the link (not hard, but skimmed...) thanks! :D



Whole story behind distributor swap (short version):

  1. timing kept getting out of whack on what I assume was the original distributor (not sure presto etc?) points style. Adjusted multiple times, but still would jump out of time.
  2. Replaced points with a pertronix mod to steady timing. Fount upon install the screw holding down one side of the points and not pertronix, was stripped out. (never noticed as it was not the one I'd loosen while adjusting the points.)
  3. Came upon a Sugar Momma with some cash (lol hope she don't read this... :D) and decided on what i thought was a huge upgrade. Consisted of:

And some unrelated parts. Since have done a lot of other stuff... But this was in approx beginning of October... Gear found chewed and failed week before memorial day 2012 (just few weeks back.)


If you check the link, the gear metal is clearly disclosed and Steel.

This was my fault, not DUI's, Summit's or any member of this forums... :o;)

:chug:

~ JR
​
Click to expand...

JR

:)Again maybe the gear on the camshaft was already failing when you noticed timing issues and perhaps that started the chain of events..........Bottom line is this , you just have to be a detective about narrowing down what happened and trying to prevent that from happening again.
I would suggest you take your time and look at all the suggestions that have been mentioned and examine them one by one...........as you examine the parts upon disassembly ................take it slow part by part make some notes & pictures.
:D:D:D:D
 
IOPort51 said:
JR, do you know what Prussian blue is?

and I do not mean the band!

It is used to check the contact patterns of gears. I think I would get a tube and put it on the distributor gear when you install it. give it a couple of turns with no coil wire and pull the distributor and look at the gear.

You should see a contact mark at about the center end to end and in and out. I don't know what you can do if it is too deep or shallow but you may find it to your advantage to shim the distributor out.

I like the yellow /orange marker you get in R&P kits better than the blue. it is easier to see the marks.:cool:

Whether you can adjust it or not it would be interesting to see where it was making contact.
Click to expand...

Thanks IO! I am not familiar with it, but will be!! :D:D:D

I assume I can find the proper pattern to look for somewhere online? I have seen them for ring and pinion patterns though... same basic idea correct?

:chug:

~ JR
 
tarry99 said:
Do you have the engine apart now?
Click to expand...

Sorry missed this... Yes engine is currently appart still, timing cover is one, but will be coming back off to change new omix gear off for new msd gear.
 
Alright, got the thread "back on track" :D

So, last night I dove in having received my new MSD gear set.

These gears were packaged with lube, instructions, orange break in procedure tag etc. Basically the by a mile winner against the Omix ADA set.

And best / most important point: THEY FIT WITHOUT INCIDENT! :D:D:D

So everything is going back together (just have a couple loose ends to tie up tonight...)

I have a few photo's to upload too, but the main point of this post is to say:

OMIX ADA / Ruged Ridge Kit - DO NOT BUY!

MSD gears (I bought from Summit Racing)
MSD Ignition 8007 - MSD Iron Camshaft Mounted Distributor Gears - Overview - SummitRacing.com
and
MSD Ignition 8005 - MSD Iron Distributor Gears - Overview - SummitRacing.com

worked (so far) like a charm! And are the way to go if you want to put a HEI in your AMC V8.

Should be able to finish her up, fill her with fluids and hear my girl purrrr again tonight with any luck and no further "draw-backs" :cool:

:dbanana:
:chug:
~ JR
 
Good deal man.

I missed a couple pages in the middle so maybe you talked about this but I'd flush a couple quarts of oil through with the plug out and do a couple of quick oil changes.

But if you have the timing cover off can you sneak a little extendable magnet down in there and fish it around? Then dump some quarts into the pan right there?
 
She LIVES!!! ;).
 
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