Build Thread Father/Son Project in Orlando

[FiNorman]

Yup, your pic is right. Here a couple perches I found, there are some Co. out there that sell fab parts that might be cheaper or more heavy duty but make sure they are for the wider 2" springs. When you weld them on you can adjust your axle pinion angle at the same time so no wedges needed.

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The Shocks are usually mounted tube down but almost all newer shocks can be mounted either way, just check with the mfr. to be sure.

Do I need to change the perches in the rear also?.... how do I know what angle to weld them on so that I don't need shims? I know I have read about 4 degrees, but that's 4 degrees so that the U joint that connects to the drive shaft goes upward correct?

 

[gp4play]

just to make sure we are talking about the same part... is it the spring perches on the axle itself I need to change to the plate that the u bolts go through under the axle?

Yeah, the spring pad-perch on the axle has to be cut off and a new wider one replaces it so that spring and axle can be centered to each other.

 

[gp4play]

Do I need to change the perches in the rear also?.... how do I know what angle to weld them on so that I don't need shims? I know I have read about 4 degrees, but that's 4 degrees so that the U joint that connects to the drive shaft goes upward correct? yup

Sorry I just noticed I said 2" when it should be 2 1/2". No, your rear perches are already for 2.5" but if your lift is over 2" you might want to wedge your axle so the pinion angle to driveline is better.
You want 4 to 6 degree positive angle for your caster on the front axle, so yes you want the pinion to move up.
Oh by the way I screwed up again on the links I posted for ya. I copied those from a file for my CJ5 so change the app. for a CJ7

 

[FiNorman]

Thanks again... Frustrating that the directions for the ome lift don't mention anything about this.
I just started welding with a little mig welder, so I don't trust myself with anything structural. I'm going to get a pro to come in and knock out a punch list of things all at once. I need two of the body mounts moved to accommodate the yj tub, the rear cross member welded on, the hole for the radiator body mount fixed, and now this.

So when I weld the new 2 1/2 inch perches on at 4-6 degrees backward so that the pinion moves upward, I shouldn't need the shims? Or are the shims for the rear also? The new perches will be placed 1/4 inch medially, allowing room for the u bolt in between the new perch and the lower shock mount, correct?
Thanks again

 

[gp4play]

"Frustrating that the directions for the ome lift don't mention anything about this"
That's surprises me to, you would think they offer them in the kit. I had a lot of head scratching and frustrating moments when I started building up my CJ7 , and I didn't even do half what you and your helpers are doing. I think y'all are doing great, so keep up the good work.

"So when I weld the new 2 1/2 inch perches on at 4-6 degrees backward so that the pinion moves upward, I shouldn't need the shims? Or are the shims for the rear also? The new perches will be placed 1/4 inch medially, allowing room for the u bolt in between the new perch and the lower shock mount, correct?"
I would buy new shock mounts and weld them out-board and a lil up more, but we have rocks that like to bang into things hanging down, that way it won't be so tight.
After you cut off the spring perches and get the new ones mock it all up like your mounting the axle to the springs and with U-bolts loose enough to move your axle to set the angle then spot weld them in place so you can have em welded where you want em and you will be able to see if you want to move the shock mount. If you set it up right no shims will be needed in the front, but if the lift is over 2" I would add them to the rear.

 

[gp4play]

"So when I weld the new 2 1/2 inch perches on at 4-6 degrees backward so that the pinion moves upward"

I hope I'm not adding to your frustration and I'm sorry I said up. but when you go positive on your caster the pinion will go down. Now I will go to my garage and beat my head on the work bench and never try multi tasking again.

 

[FiNorman]

After discussing the issue with Ome and Rocky Road, they don't see a problem with running the smaller perches and having the overhang of 1/4 inch on both sides. They both agree that they have been using this application for a number of years with no reported adverse outcomes.

Our next problem was that when replacing the U-bolts from the kit we found that the bolts were too "long" and ran out of threads before the plate was tight. I thought maybe I was missing a bracket, but the only thing I could find were the bump stops and despite this it was still too long.

I then attempted to cut some more threads on to the 3 u-bolts (the one larger Ubolt that goes over them pumpkin fit nicely, but the nut looked like it skipped a thread and is now stuck on the U bolt and won't come off.

I ordered 3 new bolts that are shorter and will wait until they arrive to fit them on.

In the interim we moved on to the diff covers, cleaned them out well and started to put our powder coating kit to the test. for the cover we chose Eastwood single stage reflective chrome powder coat, and for the bolts and plug starlight blue.

We also did the brake line extension brackets and the proportioning valve cover in chrome. It is slightly off but matches nicely with the chrome sway bar disconnects that we installed, along with new bushings all around.

It's tough to say because my engine isn't in the bay yet but from the looks of it my brake line extensions are going to need to be longer.

 

[FiNorman]

We got the check roll over valves from Amazon.
Amazon.com: Jeep Wrangler,etc Fuel Tank Roll Over Valve Package,OEM: Automotive

.. even though they are for a YJ they look to be compatible. They had similar dimensions and were a very nice fit. We were thrilled about this. I guess we will find out how it works when we get the engine in.

 

[FiNorman]

Next up we are going to start to assemble the tie rod, drag link, pitman arm and steering stabilizer.... I have a feeling this is going to be not even close to where it should be adjusted. My highly motivated build partner went a little crazy and took everything apart, so we don't have a measurement for the tie rod or drag link. I can't quite figure out how the pitman arm goes back in to align correctly and I would have thought it was actually pressed into the steering gear, or is it just placed on as high as it will go and then tightened with the large nut?

And I thought I had a handle of where I would need the shim but when I went back and re read the thread I was a little confused because we were discussing several topics at once..... the shim goes on the front axle, from the front pointing to the rear axle so that the pinion will move downward?

I may have the perches and shock mounts welded on once I find a reliable welder and I straighten out the alignment issue, I'm just a little nervous that I will weld something that will need to be moved once it is properly aligned.

If anyone has some suggestions as to how to take the measurements for the tie rod and drag link let me know.

thanks

 

[PaRenegade]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I noticed your front springs are on backwards. The + mark is to go to the stationary frame mount and it takes the largest bushing in the set and uses the sleeve. You may have to turn the degree shim around if your using rear springs on the front. The thicker side should go forward so it tilts the axle back in a clockwise direction.

As for the rear axle, you want the centerline of the Transfer Case output yoke/shaft to be parallel with the centerline of the axle yoke/pinion. Otherwise you need a cv jointed driveshaft and you point the axle yoke straight at the Transfer Case yoke.

 

[FiNorman]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I noticed your front springs are on backwards. The + mark is to go to the stationary frame mount and it takes the largest bushing in the set and uses the sleeve. You may have to turn the degree shim around if your using rear springs on the front. The thicker side should go forward so it tilts the axle back in a clockwise direction.

As for the rear axle, you want the centerline of the Transfer Case output yoke/shaft to be parallel with the centerline of the axle yoke/pinion. Otherwise you need a cv jointed driveshaft and you point the axle yoke straight at the Transfer Case yoke.

You are correct PA... I will fix it rickie-tik... thanks for giving me a heads up early, I need install the new ubolts anyways so I will have the plates off in any event... and to make matter worse you actually told me this very thing a couple of months ago. Unfortunately when I went to put the springs on I consulted this threadOld Man EMU Leaf Spring Orientation - JeepForum.com and ended up bass ackward

 

[PaRenegade]

Cool beans! Now I don't feel as bad. I hate doing things over, but if it's coming apart again it's not too bad.

 

[FiNorman]

Last week we finished fixing the front springs and got the new ubolts in and installed. I was a little disappointed in Rocky Road as they were pretty unresponsive when I called them... just to review I bought my OME springs from them. They sent me the kit with new Ubolts. As I tightened the bolts it became evident that the threads on the bolts were not long enough to allow me to tighten the skid plate to the u bolts/axle. I used my tool and die kit to thread a 1/2-20 thread farther down the ubolt to the bottom of the U, and although initially it appeared as if it was going to work, when I did my test thread it initially worked but then must have skipped a thread and the nut was stuck in the middle. I tried heat, pb, a huge adjustable wrench... no workie.

Rocky Road just responded "They werent long enough? I have heard about that happening before.... I guess that's just one of those things that happen. Sorry, I would just get new ubolts that fit".

I ordered new bolts from 4wd, and they fit right in... at the same time we reversed the front springs (I put them on backwards) and put the brake line extension brackets on (we had applied chrome powder coat). I tried to attach the brake line extensions but they don't seem to reach. Either I got the wrong ones from Rocky Road or the weight of the engine and tranny will push down to make it fit.

 

[FiNorman]

Then we moved onto the original 20 gallon original gas tank and skid plate. We got the outside of the skid plate all painted, POR on the inside and alumablast on the outside.
We spot welded the new rear crossmember in after cutting the slots for the body mounts a little wider (about 3/4 of an inch laterally on both sides) to accommodate the yj tub.
Then we replaced the gas tank and skid plate everything was just lining up... but I needed about an eight of an inch to get the passenger side carriage bolts to line up with the skid plate through the crossmember when I got the great idea of using a pry bar.
Long story short I cracked the tank right where the strap goes over it on the back side....
We attempted a fix by using a soldering iron to seal the seam then melt pieces of poly from a 5 gallon gas tank to melt into the area and must have sealed up most of it, because when we tested it with water it didnt leak except for an area of moisture in the middle that was developing. It was like every hour I would dip my finger in water then rub it along the bottom of the crack. We figured it would only get worse, so we bought another tank off Ebay for $115 including shipping.
We will install once it arrives

 

[FiNorman]

We started to install the tie rods and drag link. I have a really negative feeling about this... it just feels very unprecise.

We started by reusing the same tube for the tie rod, we just ordered replacement ends. We also got a brand new link and the end that attaches to the steering knuckle.
Keep in mind that our steering box is new also, and reusing the drop pitman that came with the jeep (I think there was a 4 inch lift).

The first variable is the position of the pitman arm that would have the steering wheel "straight forward". I assumed that it was with the eyelet of the pitman pointing straight back down the middle of the frame to the middle of the gas tank. I made this assumption despite the fact that the actual steering box sits at about a 10 degree angle to the frame.

Next we measured the length of the original Tie rod 47 inches and replaced the ends and threaded them so they were the appropriate length.

Then we attached the drag link to the pitman and to the passenger knuckle, using the front hole. It doesn't feel like the solid end of my link is seated into the pitman far enough. I thought once I started to thread the nut it would fall into place but it isn't flush on the pitman.

I then placed the tie rod in the rear holes of the knuckle, but at 47 inches there was a noticeable difference in the way the tires were pointing. It was obvious they weren't parallel.
We then removed the tie rod and I adjusted the ends so that they would be more in line where the wheels are parallel, but found that even when both ends are tightened all the way to make the tie rod the shortest it could be I think I am close but the tires still look slightly "knock kneed".

With all of the variable in the steering what should I do? just leave it and get an alignment when it's running? is there someway to make this more precise? should I have placed shims under the spring perches? is some of this because I haven't torqued everything down?

The angle of my link just looks off... I know It should sit as horizontal as possible but this isn't even close. Should I try a tie rod and drag link flip using Goferit Products! any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[PaRenegade]

I see that Mr. Murphy must visit your garage also. He spends too much time at my garage for my liking. That guy really gets around!

Can't say as I've ever heard much good said about Rocky Road. They should have sent you replacement u-bolts. If you happened to get the Rancho's (#711 & #712) from 4WDInc, the one kit has alum. shims included. Don't use them, toss 'em. Use steel ones.

I see you posted right before I did so I'll add to this.
The issue with your drag link could be due to it being backwards. I don't know if that would matter or not, it shouldn't, but my adjuster sleeve was at the pitman arm end of it. Just a thought.
For the tie rod, some guys say to keep them parallel, some say to toe them in slightly. But you should be able to take a measurement from the front and back of the brake rotor to get them parallel. Some tie rod end manf. use the same numbers or similar ones. Mine were ES140's and ES062's from Moog but the one that came with my Big Daddy tie rod was a different brand but had the same number. I don't recall which was right or left.
But when it's road worthy I'd still get a front end alignment done, even if it feels okay.

The shims should be on top of the spring and under the perch, with the taller side towards the front. I put mine together and checked my caster to see what shims I would need. I had 2* on one side and 2 1/2* on the other, so I figured the ones that came on the OME springs were roughly 2* ones and they would get removed so I bought 6* shims. I painted them last night so I'll install them tonight and check it again. Don't tighten up your Ubolts yet, as they do stretch and shouldn't be re-used (although some guys do). Wait till all else is figured out before the final torque down.

This pic is a dry run for fitment. It's also missing my drag link but I flipped both the drag link and tie rod and used the tapered bushings from OK4WD. Still the factory pitman arm.

 

[FiNorman]

I see that Mr. Murphy must visit your garage also. He spends too much time at my garage for my liking. That guy really gets around!

Can't say as I've ever heard much good said about Rocky Road. They should have sent you replacement u-bolts. If you happened to get the Rancho's (#711 & #712) from 4WDInc, the one kit has alum. shims included. Don't use them, toss 'em. Use steel ones.

It could be worse... but he is an annoying dude to have around.... can't he visit someone with a Suzuki Samurai?

 

[FiNorman]

I just noticed the steering linkage is backwards!

 

[FiNorman]

Ok thank you PaRenegade....
I just got a little confused. My OME kit didn't come with shims, I will order them... the question is I assume you measured the amount of degrees with that device pictured? I will do some research and figure out how to use one.

So I measure the distance from the brake caliper to a know location on the frame and compare the two for a rough estimate?

Is your linkage placement with the pitman going straight back pointing at the middle of the gas tank?

 

[PaRenegade]

Not sure which OME springs came with yours but I got the CS036's and they have a shim already attached to the spring pack. It's about a 2* shim. The angle gauges are like $10 and their simple to read. You need a flat spot on the top of the knuckle. I just took a big socket that fit over the ball joint stud and sat on top the castle nut. That gives you a flat surface to put the gauge on.

What I meant with the brake caliper is to measure from the outside of the left rotor to the outside of the right rotor, at the front and at the back and then compare. If they match then they are parallel.

I didn't move either my steering gears pitman arm or the tre's on either rod. And I'm replacing both so I just adjusted them to the same length and I should be in the ballpark. Turning the adjuster on the drag link will fine tune it. In your case, if your not sure, you'll have to turn the steering gear the whole way to one side, then the whole way to the other side, divide the amount of turns in two and go back that far. You should then be at center. Now straighten the wheels and then adjust the drag link to fit the two holes. That should put you in the ballpark and an alignment will fine tune it.