Grinding into reverse

[b3uhbp]

Hello gents. Got a problem I want to run past you. When the engine is running and I put my foot on the clutch and shift to reverse there is grinding. To my knowledge there are only two things that can cause this. The clutch pedal is out of adjustment and the clutch isn't fully disengaged or the pilot bearing is worn and causing enough friction to turn the input shaft.

I have checked the pedal and am sure it is properly adjusted so I'm pretty certain it is the pilot bearing.

My question is, are there other possibilities other than the 2 I mention above?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

This has nut'n to do with the pilot bearing that's located in the flywheel.
First-make sure you have 1-1 1/4" of pedal freeplay.
Just bump the shifter into a forward gear, before engaging reverse.
This is what I do with my T-5 and have no issues.
Most manual tranny's do'n have syncro'd reverse.......
LG

 

[b3uhbp]

With your foot on the clutch there should be no movement of the Transmission when sitting still.

 

[Torxhead]

I have to agree with Lumpy on this. Check the clutch pedal freeplay and put the tranny into a forward gear first.

 

[b3uhbp]

I have to agree with Lumpy on this. Check the clutch pedal freeplay and put the tranny into a forward gear first.

Gentlemen, I greatly respect your collective knowledge but I know that the clutch pedal is properly adjusted, and I do put the shifter into a forward gear before going into reverse and it works. I'm just puzzled why the tranny keeps turning when the clutch is disengaged. Very interesting! Thanks

 

[Hedgehog]

Not pilot bearing, it should be Throw out bearing. That could be bad. Do you get any shake or noise when engaging the clutch. Is your clutch manual or hydraulic? As you have said, it's a simple equation for some reason your clutch isn't fully disengaging.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Gentlemen, I greatly respect your collective knowledge but I know that the clutch pedal is properly adjusted, and I do put the shifter into a forward gear before going into reverse and it works. I'm just puzzled why the tranny keeps turning when the clutch is disengaged. Very interesting! Thanks

When was the last time you ck'd the tranny and t'case oil level?
What oil are you use'n in the T-5 ?
LG

 

[b3uhbp]

Not pilot bearing, it should be Throw out bearing. That could be bad. Do you get any shake or noise when engaging the clutch. Is your clutch manual or hydraulic? As you have said, it's a simple equation for some reason your clutch isn't fully disengaging.

The throw out bearing is new. I do get chatter when I engage clutch which is manual. I will be replacing all clutch components in a week or so and will also have the fly wheel resurfaced which I think is the reason for the chatter. I don't understand how a bad throw out would cause the tranny to turn. It would be noisy but it would still disengage the clutch.

 

[b3uhbp]

When was the last time you ck'd the tranny and t'case oil level?
What oil are you use'n in the T-5 ?
LG

All lubes are new and topped off. Use Penzoil Synchromesh in tranny (T-5 NWC).

 

[Neuner]

There can be enough friction at the pilot bearing/bushing that it will keep the input shaft spinning some and hence you get grinding. Takes it a bit to completely stop. Putting it into the lowest gear or 1st has enough counter friction to stop this motion and allow you to slide into reverse since it doesn't have synchros.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Did you re-surface the flywheel when you replaced the clutch?
If, No-That could well be the reason for the 'chatter' that most call 'shutter'.
Did you replace the pilot bearing and oil soak it before install with this new clutch?
PLEASE-Double check your freeplay adjustment(1-1 1/4" measured at the pedal).
Not uncommon at all for the pedal freeplay to change after a new clutch install. The OEM linkage is a joke and will wear quickly. That wear leads to excessive pedal freeplay. As the clutch disc itself wears. That shortens pedal freeplay.
LG

 

[b3uhbp]

There can be enough friction at the pilot bearing/bushing that it will keep the input shaft spinning some and hence you get grinding. Takes it a bit to completely stop. Putting it into the lowest gear or 1st has enough counter friction to stop this motion and allow you to slide into reverse since it doesn't have synchros.

Thanks Neuner for a little validation of my theory. I'm not saying it is the pilot bearing but only that it could be since it's the only other explaination other than pedal adjustment. In any case, it's an interesting discussion. Thanks

 

[b3uhbp]

Did you re-surface the flywheel when you replaced the clutch?
If, No-That could well be the reason for the 'chatter' that most call 'shutter'.
Did you replace the pilot bearing and oil soak it before install with this new clutch?
PLEASE-Double check your freeplay adjustment(1-1 1/4" measured at the pedal).
Not uncommon at all for the pedal freeplay to change after a new clutch install. The OEM linkage is a joke and will wear quickly. That wear leads to excessive pedal freeplay. As the clutch disc itself wears. That shortens pedal freeplay.
LG

Clutch to be replaced in a couple of weeks.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Look for heat cracks in the area of the f'wheel where the disc contacts.
Also see how smoothly the disc slides on the tranny's input shaft. You may well want to see if the tranny input shaft play is still within spec. You'll need a dial indicator that reads down to .001" for this.
Are you still run the OEM clutch linkage? If so-Look on the flat plates of the bellcrank for egg-shape worn holes from the main rod that connects to the pedal.
Also ck the nylon bushings inside the bellcrank for slop.wear.
Good luck,
LG

 

[b3uhbp]

Look for heat cracks in the area of the f'wheel where the disc contacts.
Also see how smoothly the disc slides on the tranny's input shaft. You may well want to see if the tranny input shaft play is still within spec. You'll need a dial indicator that reads down to .001" for this.
Are you still run the OEM clutch linkage? If so-Look on the flat plates of the bellcrank for egg-shape worn holes from the main rod that connects to the pedal.
Also ck the nylon bushings inside the bellcrank for slop.wear.
Good luck,
LG

Just went out and checked the plate that the rod from the pedal runs through and it looks very good, no wallowed out at all. The nylon bushings in the bell crank were replaced a couple of years ago but there is a little wobble in em but not much. Good suggestions but it all looks good.

 

[Neuner]

Thanks Neuner for a little validation of my theory. I'm not saying it is the pilot bearing but only that it could be since it's the only other explaination other than pedal adjustment. In any case, it's an interesting discussion. Thanks

That slight friction at the bushing or bearing is normal and not bad. Even if the bushing is worn, the viscosity of grease will do the same.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

That slight friction at the bushing or bearing is normal and not bad. Even if the bushing is worn, the viscosity of grease will do the same.

You never use grease on a pilot bushing. Oil soak overnight and install with a 'wick' wet with oil.
Now, a roller bearing when used, should have a packing of grease.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

This is good, I never considered the friction in a pilot bushing would cause the Transmission input shaft to turn. It makes perfect sense, especially in very cold regions. More than likely the heavy oil/grease in the Transmission would stop the turning in the cold.

 

[Neuner]

You never use grease on a pilot bushing. Oil soak overnight and install with a 'wick' wet with oil.
Now, a roller bearing when used, should have a packing of grease.
LG

Correct and what I meant, so thanks. Don't want to mislead anyone. Either way there is a stickiness (technical term) .

 

[b3uhbp]

This is good, I never considered the friction in a pilot bushing would cause the Transmission input shaft to turn. It makes perfect sense, especially in very cold regions. More than likely the heavy oil/grease in the Transmission would stop the turning in the cold.

It just occured to me based on your comments that here in Texas the issue could be made worse by the heat. In addition I use Pennzoil Synchromesh in my T-5 which is only about 40 to 50 weight. Could explain a lot.