Help me shape my plan for my CJ7

[stoney bones]

I am slowly getting things together. I mean slowly.

Got the jeep stock, did suspension, tires, ignition, carb upgrade, pretty paint, bumpers....some other random stuff.

Then it sat for a long time.


Now I am playing with it again since I have more time. My goal is for this to be an "expedition vehicle". I want a go anywhere and get back vehicle.

Where I am looking for advice:

Drivetrain
Suspension
Things an expedition vehicle needs as opposed to a weekend wheeler
Tires


I have been wondering if I should go the SB350 route or if doing something like the 4.0 head swap with upgrades would be worthwhile.

Originally I wanted to goto Dana 44 's but it seems like narrow track is the way for my purpose.


I bought 33" x 12.5" mud terrains but now I question weather that was a good choice at all. In terms of size or model.

Money isnt really an concern. I am not trying to blow the bank but I do want this to fit my needs exactly without sacrifice. I already have 12k into it anyway lol

So, if you could, help me devise the best setup. I will be using this winter to plan and come summer I will start executing the plan.

 

[Hedgehog]

If you actually do have an SR4 Transmission turn it into a planter or an anchor, but get rid of it and don't allow some jeep rookie to attempt using it. The SR4 is worse than bad. I am a little to old school for some of the guys, but I like the essentially bullet proof T-18 ford truck Transmission . No matter what you put in front of it or behind it the T-18 will be stronger. Your Dana 300 will work just fine. If you want bullet proof you'll need stronger driveshafts, if nothing else upgrade your U-joints. There are a bunch of guys that love their I-6 and I'm not here to change any opinions on that. You don't want to much power or the wrong kind of power. A ton of power can be fun on the road, but in the dirt can get you stuck. The wrong kind of power, snappy power as in Chevy V8's, tends to crack frames and tear up drive lines.

I'm not a fan of super big tires. 33's are nice, bigger tires get heavy in a hurry and cause a lot of unecessary damage to your jeep that is expensive to repair or upgrade for.

I have little in the way of axle experience and others will chime in on those. For reliability two piece axles need to go away and you'll need a locker of some kind. I like the idea of a manual locker like an OX locker. The K.I.S.S. rule applies to a vehicle that absolutely needs to get you there so I would steer away from electronic lockers or even air lockers. There is something reassuring about reaching down, grabbing a lever and actually feeling the locker snap in.

If your reaching for an expedition type vehicle you want absoluely reliable, common parts that are field fixable. A seemingly simple, surprisingly expensive proposition.

 

[PaRenegade]

Without really knowing much about what's existing, I'll offer this. Get a new tranny, a T-176 or T-18 would be my choices. The SR4 is the weakest tranny offered in a Jeep.
The 2 pc. axles have to go. They are by far the weakest part of that axle. New Moser 1 pc. axles, a truss, and welded tubes will put you on par or even a step above a stock Dana 44 .
Lockers front and rear are a must for an "expedition" type vehicle.
If those "mud terrain's" are from B.F.Goodrich then by all means keep them. They have been a great tire for decades, and just recently discontinued for most sizes in favor of the new km2's.
Get a bumper for the rear that has a spare tire carrier on it that can also have a basket attached for gear storage. The only downside is that it can raise your center of gravity if loaded heavy, but with real estate so sparse on a Jeep you don't have much choice.

Some other things I'd consider:
-winch and assoc. straps and snatch blocks
-on board air
-dual batteries
-twin stick

 

[Torxhead]

"Expedition Vehicle" means putting miles down, so I would suggest keeping the six for economy. Adding a rack to hold gas cans would help also. You will probably be o.k. with those tires, especially mud terrains. Plan on hauling gear, so storage compartments would be good. Consider the trails you will be going on and plan around them. Learning about weather systems would also be helpful.

 

[Old Dog]

I love my sbc350 BUT I'm never to far from a gas station.
Stick with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l or 4.0 you won't have to carry so much gas with you.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

Keep the AMC I-6. If you must have a V8 then drop in an AMC 360, not the SBC. The 360s are plentiful and being AMC your whole drive train can be bolted together without the need for adaptors should you want to. Speaking of drive train for expedition purposes don’t lower (numerically higher) the gears in the differentials; leave them as high as reasonable for on the road then add a T-18 Transmission (6.32:1, not he 4.0:1) and put a Teralow kit (4.0:1) in the Dana 300 Transfer Case you should already have. (You will need an adaptor to bolt the T-18 to the Dana 300 ) The T-18 will give you the low granny gear 1st when you want or need it and coupled with the Dana 300 the crawl ratio should be very low. Having no idea what the axle gear ratio is let say 3.53, your crawl ratio with this set up would be 6.32 x 4.0 x 3.53 = 89.24; quite good by any standards. If you know your axle ratio just swap that number into the equation but in reality you may not even want to go that low depending upon tire size; you’ll need to play with it.

 

[stoney bones]

All good info.

I am pretty dead set on the T-18 ...I have been lusting after those for a while. I still have a qoute saved from novak for one.

I wanted the 350 for the power. My I6 in its current state is appauling. For instance...

Yesterday I was playing in the snow. I was out in my field and with maybe 12" of snow I was struggling. I dont know the exact depth but from the marks I could see that I was dragging the diffs in the snow. Mostly powder with thicker stuff at the base, frozen dirt underneath.

1st gear, 4x4, full throttle....had to maintain very high RPM to keep moving forward(not spinning the tires wildly, they were slightly breaking loose here and there)..if I stopped it was near impossible to get going again(again not because of spinning tires). That maybe more of a traction issue but even in 2x4 on a road it takes maybe 30 seconds to get up to 55 (approx, jumpy needle).

When in 4x4 in dirt on my trail..if I am in any sort of incline at all (or in a little mud that provides too much rolling resistance) I have to almost floor it and pop the clutch to get those tires moving. I have had to use low range to get started in the same spots my old stock cherokee would do just fine.

To me that seems a power issue. But I dont know.

I really do like the I6. I have had 2 cherokees with the 4.0 and a friend with one as well. I am pretty familiar with them and used to tinkering with them.

If I stay with it, it will need the 4.o head swap at a bare minmum.


The other thing I was thinking...I think my tires are too wide. And my geaing to tall.

staying 33" would the next smaller width be better? And if I do go with that, assuming I stay with the I6 and mod it, what gearing should I be looking at?


I am all over the T-18 w/granny, terra low kit for my Dana 300 and twinstickin' it...we will consider that decided.

 

[Hedgehog]

Sounds like a combination of tired I-6 and mostly tall gearing to me. Your I-6 should have a lot more power than you describe. Remember there is a trade off with a lot more horse power. If your serious about this, fuel injection is definitely the way to go.

 

[tarry99]

All good info.

I am pretty dead set on the T-18 ...I have been lusting after those for a while. I still have a qoute saved from novak for one.

I wanted the 350 for the power. My I6 in its current state is appauling. For instance...

Yesterday I was playing in the snow. I was out in my field and with maybe 12" of snow I was struggling. I dont know the exact depth but from the marks I could see that I was dragging the diffs in the snow. Mostly powder with thicker stuff at the base, frozen dirt underneath.

1st gear, 4x4, full throttle....had to maintain very high RPM to keep moving forward(not spinning the tires wildly, they were slightly breaking loose here and there)..if I stopped it was near impossible to get going again(again not because of spinning tires). That maybe more of a traction issue but even in 2x4 on a road it takes maybe 30 seconds to get up to 55 (approx, jumpy needle).

When in 4x4 in dirt on my trail..if I am in any sort of incline at all (or in a little mud that provides too much rolling resistance) I have to almost floor it and pop the clutch to get those tires moving. I have had to use low range to get started in the same spots my old stock cherokee would do just fine.

To me that seems a power issue. But I dont know.

I really do like the I6. I have had 2 cherokees with the 4.0 and a friend with one as well. I am pretty familiar with them and used to tinkering with them.

If I stay with it, it will need the 4.o head swap at a bare minmum.


The other thing I was thinking...I think my tires are too wide. And my geaing to tall.

staying 33" would the next smaller width be better? And if I do go with that, assuming I stay with the I6 and mod it, what gearing should I be looking at?


I am all over the T-18 w/granny, terra low kit for my Dana 300 and twinstickin' it...we will consider that decided.

This is not about power but more so about Torque in Ft Lbs. The B&W T-18 is a great Transmission . Although slow shifting but with a great low granny gear that is brutely strong!...Keep in mind though no Synchro's in Low or reverse. Final drive gearing should be picked based on where the most used gearing will be..........no reason setting this up to be a rock crawler when your only going to crawl rocks 10% of the time.
THe AMC straight 6 is a good choice especially the Fuel Injected version at 190 HP and 225 ft lbs of torque............The small block 5.7 chevy is also a good choice ...............but again not anything with high power. The best conversion platforms I've seen for a Jeep are the tuned port Computer version's in the early 90's ......250 HP and 350 ft lbs of table flat torque right off Idle.......these motors in the corvette's and camero's were also known to get 25 MPG.
The 33 inch tire's are fine and a 10" wide 33 will go anywhere a 12" tire will.

 

[stoney bones]

I always thought this might be a bit dogged down for what it should be. I have always heard the same that you guys describe...the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l should be plenty I thought.

In terms of checking how tired a motor is....would that mean do a cylinder pressure check?


I just picked up the fuel pressure gauge today, so if we stay out of the negatives I will go out and tinker. Otherwise I will have to wait a couple days for a warm up.......yesterday with wind chill it was -31F!!!!! Took EVERY last drop out of the battery to get her going....so cold the door latch snapped off...thing was almost frozen in place. She did not want to move lol probably shouldnt have made her but I wanted to see where we stand. I really just wanted to see how she would handle that temp combined with going around the property now that there is over 12" of snow.

 

[Hedgehog]

If you drew your battery down that low stick her on a charger to bering her back up, an alternator won't fuly recharge your battery ...... at least that is what is said, why with the alternator pumping out 14+ volts the battery isn't charged is beyonnd me, but on more than one occasion sticking a charger on did help bring a battery back to life. THe nest time you need to drive the jeep put a light under the engine .... Hmmm I wonder, that worked great with the old incandecent bulbs, probably not with the new energy efficient bulbs.

 

[stoney bones]

Ill be getting battery on the tender.

This battery is junk. If it is not left on a trickle charger or ran at least once every 2 weeks it is dead as a door nail. Yellow top optima made in mexico. It has been replaced already once on warranty.

Who makes a battery that you can count on even in sub zero temps? Should I look for gel?

What about alternator? Is there another one of higher quality and reliability I should consider? or is the stock just fine?

 

[Hedgehog]

A bad Optima! I thought those were the end all be all of the battery world. Hmmmm I wonder if they don't perform well in the cold. Have you had the unfortunate experience where you drained it down dead a few times and reduced it's life expectancy?

The charge issue is an age old alternator thing they have always said. "An alternator will not charge a with a low charge. ...... For a full charge you must put your battery on a charger." Like I wrote, why I don't know.

Isn't an Optima a gel battery?

 

[Petescj]

Ill be getting battery on the tender.

This battery is junk. If it is not left on a trickle charger or ran at least once every 2 weeks it is dead as a door nail. Yellow top optima made in mexico. It has been replaced already once on warranty.

Who makes a battery that you can count on even in sub zero temps? Should I look for gel?

What about alternator? Is there another one of higher quality and reliability I should consider? or is the stock just fine?

A bad Optima! I thought those were the end all be all of the battery world. Hmmmm I wonder if they don't perform well in the cold. Have you had the unfortunate experience where you drained it down dead a few times and reduced it's life expectancy?

The charge issue is an age old alternator thing they have always said. "An alternator will not charge a with a low charge. ...... For a full charge you must put your battery on a charger." Like I wrote, why I don't know.

Isn't an Optima a gel battery?

Optima is hanging on by the name it made for itself before the move to Mexico. Ive had good luck with the Sears and Napa brand batteries. Interstate makes some descent ones as well.

 

[mtnwhlr]

I have never had any luck charging a Optima with a battery charger only in a vehicle.

 

[cj7inthetwigs]

Haven't had one lick of trouble out of my yellow top! Watch the websites, Autozone and others will give you a discount online and optima will offer a mail in rebate. Both combined makes the cost around $75-100. There is a USA brand but i can't recall…. oddessy? Interstate is a damn good battery too.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[Saddle Tramp]

Keep your Jeep, Jeep. It is a shame to castrate another AMC Jeep by stuffing a SBC between the rails. (As always I acknowledge all the SBC accolades without argument, but they belong in a hot rod not a CJ.) In my part of the country the SBC lowers the value of a CJ but most importantly we as CJ owners are charged with preserving what is left. If you must cut up a jeep to satisfy you needs pick up a YJ Wrangler and whack away.

 

[cj7inthetwigs]

Keep your Jeep, Jeep. It is a shame to castrate another AMC Jeep by stuffing a SBC between the rails. (As always I acknowledge all the SBC accolades without argument, but they belong in a hot rod not a CJ.) In my part of the country the SBC lowers the value of a CJ but most importantly we as CJ owners are charged with preserving what is left. If you must cut up a jeep to satisfy you needs pick up a YJ Wrangler and whack away.

Very well said! Grand slam as a matter of speaking. I was on Ebay last night and someone has stuffed a 468 bowtie biggie in a CJ7 . Fact, cj's weigh less than 20, 000 lbs! Fact, my AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l will well, nevermind. Maybe folks like to bark those 35" meats by simply putting their jeep into gear
Notworthy

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[stoney bones]

A bad Optima! I thought those were the end all be all of the battery world. Hmmmm I wonder if they don't perform well in the cold. Have you had the unfortunate experience where you drained it down dead a few times and reduced it's life expectancy?

The charge issue is an age old alternator thing they have always said. "An alternator will not charge a with a low charge. ...... For a full charge you must put your battery on a charger." Like I wrote, why I don't know.

Isn't an Optima a gel battery?

Yes its a gel.

When I first purchased it, it sat for 2 months during the summer. I know that seems long, but I asked the guy at autozone (i know i know) if these could sit longer than regular batteries since they are so "fancy"...he said "oh yea". Should have known.

After the first drain it would go dead if it sat only 2 weeks. After a few charging cycles I took it back for a replacement. The replacement has been similar acting except this time it did not sit for 2 months. The longest it sat was 3 - 4 weeks, still in warm months. I have been running the jeep about every 2 weeks since. When I know it will sit longer I take the bat out and put it on the tender.

I didnt want to take it back a third time...I felt like I know what to expect from that brand now. Maybe I got 2 from the same bad batch...I dunno. But, I have lost faith in them.

So now when I get her out I make sure to play around at least 45 mins to an hour...especially if it takes a lot of cranking to start her. It has been working alright since, with the special treatment.




For everyone else, I only considered the 350 because I was under the assumption this AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l was working at 100%. I am trying to meet specific goals and requirements for this vehicle. It is being purpose built, not just a toy or a restoration. I would LOVE to keep this thing Jeep to and through but if I cannot make that work then I will explore other options. I am not a power hungry guy....I wouldnt care if she was only putting out 100hp (i think im close to that lol) as long as it could get me where I need to go and back.

If you dont want to see me in a 350, help me see the light. Educate me. Please.

But keep in mind, I am Limited to the amount of work I can do on my own and I cannot seem to find a mechanic worth the dirt on my boots to help me (or even let me pay him for) these things. Thats one reason the 350 looked appealing....I can drop a crate motor in much easier than I can rebuild one. Does anyone make rebuilt Jeep motors? Or would I be stuck to sourcing from a junkyard and having it rebuilt myself?



EDIT: I do know my gears are an issue but I want to get set on the power plant first then we can talk about diffs and gears..

 

[Petescj]

Jeep/AMC 360 CJ-7



That being said you may be better served with the Chevy 350. Make your Jeep yours. Almost everything you have to swap out for the Chevy 350 you'll need to swap for the Jeep 360. Parts availability will probably be easier with the 350 which is something I think youd want in an expedition vehicle. Fuel injection is another reason to go with the 350.