more help fellas......

[bearsden]

Ended up doing everything on my top end.headgasket,cam,lifters,used the same push rods,and rocker arms.If you dont' recall this all started with a stuck lifter.Timing chain and gear looked brand new and according to the PO everything was rebuilt 25000 ago.And it looked it when i took it apart.I put everything back together,primed the motor to get everything oiled up.Got it started and it will only run with the pedal at 1/2 throttle and then it idles really ruff.Its like it just doesn't want to take off.If i let my foot off the pedal It dies.I lined my marks up TDC and my rotor is at the #1 plug.And all the wires are in the right place.Checked for vac leaks and all that.And I'm stmped.Anything you can help me with again is greatly appreciated....It did run before i tore it down..carb was fine....sorry for the long words,but i'm trying to give as much info as i can...thanks!

 

[Torxhead]

My first guess would be that the air fuel mixture is too rich.

 

[thescot]

You sure #1 piston was on compression stroke when you lined things up?

 

[bearsden]

You sure #1 piston was on compression stroke when you lined things up?

darn near positive! I will probably have to check that all again. I just pull the #1 plug feel for the piston to be at the top of its stroke,make sure my marks are aligned and pull the cap and the rotor should be pointing at the # 1 wire right? does it need to be exact? Because when I put it all back together I had the marks lined up on the timing chain gears like i was suppose to,and the piston was at the top of its stroke.the mark on the harmonic balancer was right at the "0" so i figured i was good.rotor was just off the #1 plug.Not exactly on but very close. But I will check it all again.Does that rotor need to be dead on? Can't wait to get back in the garage tonight!!

 

[bearsden]

My first guess would be that the air fuel mixture is too rich.

There is a weber carb on this and i really don't know to much about them.It seemed to run ok before i took the motor apart. Other than the stuck lifter was making it back fire.when i pulled the #6 plug it ran fine.I'll have to do some reading on that carb and check it out.Unfortunately carbs and i never really got along to well! thanks again torxhead!

 

[Torxhead]

There is a weber carb on this and i really don't know to much about them.It seemed to run ok before i took the motor apart. Other than the stuck lifter was making it back fire.when i pulled the #6 plug it ran fine.I'll have to do some reading on that carb and check it out.Unfortunately carbs and i never really got along to well! thanks again torxhead!

What I was thinking is possibly a needle & seat getting stuck while removing or reinstalling the weber. I would check for a bad fuel mixture by looking down the carb throat during operation and visually checking for excessive fuel spray. Spark plug deposit inspection or tail pipe deposit are ways to check this. Anyway, you have to start eliminating the possible problems of ignition or carb prior to looking for something inside the engine. Make sure there are no vacumn leaks also. Good luck with your analysis.

 

[Hedgehog]

When it is running check your timing. ......

the fuel pump could be bad. I don't like allowing a used fuel pump to go dry ..... are you out of gas? Don't laugh I've seen it happen. ....

If you didn't drop or do something stupid with your carb. I can't go along with the carb. being the real problem. .....

could you be backward on your fuel line and return line. They should be different sizes, the smaller one being the return line. ....

Have you checker your compression?

No the rotor doesn't need to be pointing exactly at the #1 cylinder. Mine is considerably off, but that is on purpose. It allows the vacuum advance on the new distributor to clear the fan belt.

 

[bearsden]

When it is running check your timing. ......

the fuel pump could be bad. I don't like allowing a used fuel pump to go dry ..... are you out of gas? Don't laugh I've seen it happen. ....

If you didn't drop or do something stupid with your carb. I can't go along with the carb. being the real problem. .....

could you be backward on your fuel line and return line. They should be different sizes, the smaller one being the return line. ....

Have you checker your compression?

No the rotor doesn't need to be pointing exactly at the #1 cylinder. Mine is considerably off, but that is on purpose. It allows the vacuum advance on the new distributor to clear the fan belt.

i filled it up before i took it apart and I did have the fuel pump out .I only have one hose on my fuel filter,not sure if thats right but thats how PO had it.It starts hard,and when it does its like its barely alive with my foot 1/2 into the pedal.I let off and it dies.Fuel pump was working before.I can't keep it running long enough to check anything.I did switch out the coil "cap" because the wires were really loose and when it wouldnt fire i found the wires sloppy inside the cap.So i replaced it, and the coil at the same time.I did notice the coil was warm to the touch when i mounted it on the side of the block last night after trying to get it to run.thanks again!

 

[bearsden]

What I was thinking is possibly a needle & seat getting stuck while removing or reinstalling the weber. I would check for a bad fuel mixture by looking down the carb throat during operation and visually checking for excessive fuel spray. Spark plug deposit inspection or tail pipe deposit are ways to check this. Anyway, you have to start eliminating the possible problems of ignition or carb prior to looking for something inside the engine. Make sure there are no vacumn leaks also. Good luck with your analysis.

I do know it runs rich.But when i take the head off i just pull the manifolds back far enough to remove the head and do my work.So i never really messed with the carb.......so I'll keep looking !!! thanks!!

 

[Old Dog]

have you tried to adjust the timing at all, it could be way retarded. Just a thought.

 

[bearsden]

have you tried to adjust the timing at all, it could be way retarded. Just a thought.

yes,last night i moved it just a little each way to see if it would fire up and pretty much got the same outcome. It finally starts and then chugs really slow and that's only if i have my foot on the gas.I do get some popping and hissing just before it dies.I'm not really sure how much i can move the distributor ??????

 

[Hedgehog]

Sorry your getting a little to techno speak for me. I don't know what a coil cap is and I'm not sure what wires your referring to. Do you have an H.E.I. ignition with the coil and spark plug wires in the ignition cap? .... but it sounds like you have a separate coil to mount on the block. Maybe I'm reading to literally is your "cap" a capacitor…. I’m not witting this to pick on you I just want to help if it is at all possible. If you are getting a weak spark this is a good place to start.

When you pulled the heads you replaced ALL the gaskets so there is no possibility that you’ve got a bad air leak, running extremely lean, are you?

Your problem doesn’t really feel like a mechanical problem like timing or cam being off. If it were something like that the engine wouldn’t run at all.

 

[Old Dog]

yes,last night i moved it just a little each way to see if it would fire up and pretty much got the same outcome. It finally starts and then chugs really slow and that's only if i have my foot on the gas.I do get some popping and hissing just before it dies.I'm not really sure how much i can move the distributor ??????

just to double check I would turn the engine by hand till the timing mark was at 8* before TDC the rotor should be pointing at #1.
The vac. leak is also a good possibility, it would have to be a pretty large one. Like maybe the intake gasket.

 

[thescot]

Unless I missed something I still think you are 180 off on the timing. There is two points each piston will be at top dead center,one is compression which you are in need of and the other is the exhaust/intake stroke. Your dist may be pointing at #1 but its on top dead on the intake/exhaust stroke. Basically I think you need to find TDC off the timing marks with the rotor pointing at #1 plug again,Pull the distributor,rotate the engine 360 degrees the way it rotates when running back to TDC again and reinstall the distributor exactly where the body and rotor was pointing. Then try to fire it up and see what you get. If its better ste your timing to spec and your good to go. Ive screwed up before on engines and set things off 180 and it fired but ran like you describe. Hopefully its as simple as this for you.

 

[hdgapeach]

yes,last night i moved it just a little each way to see if it would fire up and pretty much got the same outcome. It finally starts and then chugs really slow and that's only if i have my foot on the gas.I do get some popping and hissing just before it dies.I'm not really sure how much i can move the distributor ??????

I'm leaning toward what "thescot" mentioned in his last post. The give away for me was your statement quoted, "I do get some popping and hissing just before it dies." That could be a clue that your timing is way off, like maybe 180* off. Tweaking the distributor left or right a few degrees won't clear that one up. If the popping you're hearing is coming out the top (carb) you have a cylinder firing while the intake valve is open. Out the bottom (exhaust), same thing only when there's an exhaust valve open. The hissing is compression leak down on an unfired cylinder. Hint, hint - timing, maybe distributor 180* out.

 

[bearsden]

Sorry your getting a little to techno speak for me. I don't know what a coil cap is and I'm not sure what wires your referring to. Do you have an H.E.I. ignition with the coil and spark plug wires in the ignition cap? .... but it sounds like you have a separate coil to mount on the block. Maybe I'm reading to literally is your "cap" a capacitor…. I’m not witting this to pick on you I just want to help if it is at all possible. If you are getting a weak spark this is a good place to start.

When you pulled the heads you replaced ALL the gaskets so there is no possibility that you’ve got a bad air leak, running extremely lean, are you?

Your problem doesn’t really feel like a mechanical problem like timing or cam being off. If it were something like that the engine wouldn’t run at all.

sorry hedgehog I didn't know else to call it.I don't have the hei ign.and my coil mounts on the block with just a cap that slides over the top.And yes all new gaskets on everything.Last night when i got it to start it idled(or you could say chugged) so i took my foot off the pedal grabbed my timing light that was already hooked up and couldn't get even a flicker out of it.Nothing...And its new,bought it just for this jeep.I've never had that happen before...So tonight I'll be out there again trying something ...thanks again for the help!

 

[bearsden]

I'm leaning toward what "thescot" mentioned in his last post. The give away for me was your statement quoted, "I do get some popping and hissing just before it dies." That could be a clue that your timing is way off, like maybe 180* off. Tweaking the distributor left or right a few degrees won't clear that one up. If the popping you're hearing is coming out the top (carb) you have a cylinder firing while the intake valve is open. Out the bottom (exhaust), same thing only when there's an exhaust valve open. The hissing is compression leak down on an unfired cylinder. Hint, hint - timing, maybe distributor 180* out.

So is there a way to check that or do i just check TDC and start over.When i put the dis..sorry DIZZY back in, I marked it on the side and and made sure my rotor was pointing at #1. So i might have screwed something up there being as I've never done this stuff before..Let me know what you think and thanks for the help! It's friday

 

[Peanut Butter]

sorry hedgehog I didn't know else to call it.I don't have the hei ign.and my coil mounts on the block with just a cap that slides over the top.And yes all new gaskets on everything.Last night when i got it to start it idled(or you could say chugged) so i took my foot off the pedal grabbed my timing light that was already hooked up and couldn't get even a flicker out of it.Nothing...And its new,bought it just for this jeep.I've never had that happen before...So tonight I'll be out there again trying something ...thanks again for the help!

Here is what he is talking about:
View attachment 15440

Look at the top of the coil. The connector is like a cap. Rod

 

[bearsden]

Unless I missed something I still think you are 180 off on the timing. There is two points each piston will be at top dead center,one is compression which you are in need of and the other is the exhaust/intake stroke. Your dist may be pointing at #1 but its on top dead on the intake/exhaust stroke. Basically I think you need to find TDC off the timing marks with the rotor pointing at #1 plug again,Pull the distributor,rotate the engine 360 degrees the way it rotates when running back to TDC again and reinstall the distributor exactly where the body and rotor was pointing. Then try to fire it up and see what you get. If its better ste your timing to spec and your good to go. Ive screwed up before on engines and set things off 180 and it fired but ran like you describe. Hopefully its as simple as this for you.

I will do that immediately when i get home and get back with you.I some how believe its in the timing thing as well,just by the way its trying to run.Thanks thescot !!

 

[hdgapeach]

So is there a way to check that or do i just check TDC and start over.When i put the dis..sorry DIZZY back in, I marked it on the side and and made sure my rotor was pointing at #1. So i might have screwed something up there being as I've never done this stuff before..Let me know what you think and thanks for the help! It's friday

Simplest way I can think of to assure you're at TDC on #1 is to pull cylinder #1 spark plug. Plug the hole with one of your fingers while turning the crankshaft with a ratchet and socket. When you feel the pressure push your finger out of the spark plug hole, you're coming up toward TDC on #1. Two people is easier, one fingering the hole and the other turning the wrench. Doing it by yourself is easier if you remove all the spark plugs (no compression resistance). When you know you're pressuring up on cylinder 1 you can watch the timing marks until they're at TDC or stick a thin screw driver in the hole and feel for the piston to top out. Once you're sure you have the #1 piston at the top on the compression stroke, check under the dizzy cap and see where the button is pointing.